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Vaccine supply about to significantly reduce

987 replies

DareIask · 17/03/2021 16:51

Looks like Europe may have got their way

OP posts:
Dongdingdong · 19/03/2021 09:41

There was also “huge frustration” among family doctors running GP-led vaccination sites and bosses of hospitals managing mass vaccination centres that ministers were wrongly trying to claim credit for the success of the programme.

Not only is this rather childish, it’s also untrue. You can’t go 10 minutes without hearing how “wonderful” our NHS is.

Dongdingdong · 19/03/2021 09:42

(That quote was from @ArseInTheCoOpWindow’s link above).

Dongdingdong · 19/03/2021 09:46

When they promised over 40s by the end of the the month I thought no way.. Turns out I was right.

Well done you. I bet you were one of those posters who didn’t think we’d meet the mid February target either.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 19/03/2021 09:48

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow it says no agreed timeframes as in contacted
It doesn't mean they were not expecting x amount on a certain date , plus all you have heard from the minsiters is how well the nhs have done and volunteers etc , so thats a pretty desperate non story
We are still on target and will have vaccinated the most vulnerable, people really need to start thinking glass half full rather than half empty and papers like guardian trying to knock everything , they can't speak for the whole of the nhs

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 19/03/2021 09:50

@Northernsoulgirl45 who promised over 40's by the end of the month and when?
See I don't ever remember seeing this

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 19/03/2021 09:54

See I don't remember at any briefing being told over 40'd would be done this month Or april ? Did I miss one?
The media may of been saying stuff but I avoid that as they print crap all the time
I know my mum at 64 has only just had hers today as the appts are open but people had to book them and then wait, seems like in some arEas some younger age groups were getting done whilst others were catching up , so seems fair to me to try and make sure all those in the more riskier age groups are done and the second doses are given

VaVaGloom · 19/03/2021 09:56

@Dongdingdong Not only is this rather childish, it’s also untrue. You can’t go 10 minutes without hearing how “wonderful” our NHS is

I used to work in the NHS. I can tell you what isn’t wonderful - the pay scale that housekeeping staff are on. The people who often work late evening and early morning shifts to keep NHS premises clean, sometimes having to travel to multi sites. Living on a salary of less than 20k in the South East. That is something the Government can take the credit for.

IloveJKRowling · 19/03/2021 09:56

Yes excellent nuanced post @WombatChocolate

For me, if the schools my kids are in looked in any way different to December I'd feel better too. It's a combination of being let down on all fronts at once.

I'd also feel better if I lived in another country that had managed this better - if the death rate wasn't quite so high, then not getting vaccinated wouldn't be anything like such a big deal.

The only thing I think will actually benefit the 40-50 year cohort is the fact that frontline healthcare workers will hopefully have all have at least their first (and hopefully their second) doses - so the absence rate shouldn't be quite so high when the inevitable surge in infections in this age group and increase in people in ICU happens.

Although even there I worry about the PTSD rate which must be high and increasing and also the number of people leaving because they've had enough - compounded by the insulting proposed pay cut (in real terms). The vacancy rate for nurses is insanely high, not surprisingly. Somehow the free market which would dictate when you have massive numbers of vacancies you increase pay until you've filled them doesn't seem to apply in this case.

nordica · 19/03/2021 09:58

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Northernsoulgirl45 who promised over 40's by the end of the month and when?
See I don't ever remember seeing this [/quote]
12th of March it was all over the Telegraph front page. I heard about it on the BBC's paper review the previous evening. The article is behind a paywall but the gist of it was that Whitehall sources have revealed there's going to a bumper end to the month with supply hugely increasing and all over 40s to be invited for their jabs before Easter.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/12/exclusive-vaccines-40s-easter-bumper-boost-supplies/

MarshaBradyo · 19/03/2021 10:01

‘However, senior government sources said the programme was already far ahead of expectations and about to accelerate dramatically.’

On the question of who, it’s not easy to attribute as article is without names. Could be media speculating or press release to print

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 19/03/2021 10:01

@nordica so the media then , thats why I don't believe every thing I read in the papers . A Whitehall source etc means nothing ,

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 19/03/2021 10:03

On the 12th March l knew lots of over 50’s and some 60’s who hadn’t been done.

I’m 57, the first date l could get was 22nd March. How were they planning to vaccinate the millions of over 40’s in the 9 days from my appointment to the end of March.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 19/03/2021 10:04

@MarshaBradyo I could write that and tbf if they were expecting 5 million doses from india then it was true at the time
That delivery has now changed and it looks like not contracted dates hence why goverment have just accepted that, doesn't mean it wasn't expected though and then looks like india have an upsurge so are holding onto doses instead
Its just a delay in an otherwise good running vaccination programme with us still on target to meet the overall target

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 19/03/2021 10:04

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow they weren't the typical sensational press we have were
Look at the stories over last fee days , more holes in them than a string vest

poppycat10 · 19/03/2021 10:26

There was also “huge frustration” among family doctors running GP-led vaccination sites and bosses of hospitals managing mass vaccination centres that ministers were wrongly trying to claim credit for the success of the programme

Would that be the GPs who said they didn't have time to give the jabs and then magically found the time and resources once they were told they'd be paid per jab?

poppycat10 · 19/03/2021 10:29

I feel disappointed that I can't see my mother on her birthday again, but my brother can, because he is 51. My family are chatting about it and I feel excluded

That isn't the case by law, although in practice vaccinated people are now seeing each other.

Can't you see your mum outside?

WombatChocolate · 19/03/2021 10:34

Marsha, there are lots of reports that the Telegraph and other media published the hoped for timescales AFTER a government media briefing. Perhaps they interpreted what was said optimistically, it it was following a government briefing which focused on the fact they had increased vaccine supply for the end of March (that’s the increas in doses being seen now) and it was full steam ahead....ie, not a sudden stop, which has had to happen.

Regarding when everyone would be offered and when everyone will actually have their vaccines is 2 different things. You can consider people have been offered the vaccine when the national booking site opens up to their age. That’s the point when everyone in that group is eligible to book. Not everyone looks there or knows and that’s why letters are sent out too. They can arrive a week later. It wasn’t unrealistic to think all 40s could have been eligible to book on the website by the end of March or Easter. And then people book over a period of time. Some book as soon as the booking site will allow them (sometimes before the front page is updated with their age) and others as soon as the front page updates and others when they get their letter. Some don’t book then because they don’t want to go the mass centres which can involve a journey and instead want to wait for a GP local based invite which might come at a similar time as the national invitation or can be 2-3 weeks later as GPs follow up those who haven’t booked. Then there are those who need several phone calls to actually book (just disorganised) or who need a home visit or a chat with the GP as they are hesitant.

Any individual group takes ages to be done and is never done in total. There are still over 80s and over 70s not done.ll.not because they haven’t been eligible and invited, but because of a variety of these reasons above. The GPs have to keep ‘mopping up’ and will be doing so long after the 18s have all been invited. It’s just the reality. But once the majority have booked, they don’t just wait for the last ones to be done but move into the next group and do mop up at same time. It makes sense when you think about it....we need speed with this, rather than insisting every person over 80 has accepted a vaccine before moving o to the next group. So, all over 50s wouldn’t have been jabbed by the time it was offered to 40s. Some would have booked for 2 weeks ahead and be waiting to go and some wouldn’t have booked for all the reasons mentioned earlier. It was never likely all 40s would have actually been jabbed by Easter. What would have been possible was that it was open to booking for all 40s by Easter or even the end of March. The it’s up to people to actually get on and book and attend. GPs would later then follow up those who didn’t.

It’s a complex system. People are invited in priority order by the national system. GP led system is at slightly different points across the country, largely reflecting different age demographics. But people don’t get jabbed in exact order. Some don’t book, some don’t attend....and the programme keeps rolling out, even when they don’t. They are followed up (often many times) but that’s alongside the rollout to younger groups, not instead of rolling out to younger groups.

60s were offered 2 weeks ago, 55s last week, 50s this week, so 45s could well have been booking next week. That’s what the media said and that’s what the rollout pattern looked like. And that was with factoring in 2nd doses and mop up of those not done in earlier groups. That was the plan. But now supply means there’s enough to offer to all the 50 s who will book and do the mop up and do the 2nd doses which absolutely must happen....but not enough toe spandex the rollout behind that.

45+ are just unlucky the supply problem came as it was about to get to them. It could have happened 2 weeks ago and impacted 50s.

The over 45s haven’t just ‘got ahead of themselves’ and been expecting something there was no basis of . The system was moving speedily towards them being offered, Sir Simon said at briefings to the public (about 2-3 weeks ago when phase 2 was mentioned) that there would be a move immediately from phase 1 (over 50s) to phase 2 (under 50s) and the government briefed the media at the end of last week about how brilliantly it was going and they then reported 40s were imminent. But it’s true that the government official timescales never give dates for individual grouos and only ever gave 15 April and end of July as dates for phase 1 and 2. But within those dates, people following have a sense and the media reports and government indicates where individual age cohorts might be within those broad timeframes. That did happen and it is that which has now changed.

Upper 40s didn’t imagine it or get ahead of themselves or want to queue jump or deny 2nd dosers their jab or the 80s who still haven’t been done e theirs. The government was geared up to rollout to 40s and had to pull back. The letter on NHS England to vaccine providers (the letter which caused the fuss on Weds and is still there) clearly tells sites to pull back and close bookings and not post the slots they were expecting to post. It was a very real step change.

MarshaBradyo · 19/03/2021 10:39

Wombat I’m there with you. I felt the same. I’m 46 and felt pretty happy about the rate. Dh has his now, he’s under 50 but just slipped through, 48 though.

It was more unpicking what had been said for my own curiosity. As the letter did feel like a change. I don’t think any of us imagined it - more just what led to it.

Belladonna12 · 19/03/2021 10:48

It is really disappointing as some people over 40 are quite high risk of severe Covid. I don't feel that lockdown should be eased much until they are vaccinated too. I keep hearing about schoolchildren being sent home to isolate already and expect cases to go up from now on.

middleager · 19/03/2021 10:57

@poppycat10

I feel disappointed that I can't see my mother on her birthday again, but my brother can, because he is 51. My family are chatting about it and I feel excluded

That isn't the case by law, although in practice vaccinated people are now seeing each other.

Can't you see your mum outside?

My mother is going to my brother's flat for his birthday, for a little party now that he is vaccinated and she is vaccinated. He's picking her up the night before as he lives 150 miles away and she doesn't drive. My SIL and nephew will be there too. They have both been vaccinated.

I will see my mother outside, just cant see her on her birthday again.

Quartz2208 · 19/03/2021 11:12

All this mixing when you have been vaccinated even though the rules don’t allow it just shows that people don’t get vaccinations and how they work (they by no means are 100% effective at stopping transmission or disease) shows the problem

Belladonna12 · 19/03/2021 11:18

@Quartz2208

All this mixing when you have been vaccinated even though the rules don’t allow it just shows that people don’t get vaccinations and how they work (they by no means are 100% effective at stopping transmission or disease) shows the problem
Yes, it's ridiculous especially when most people have only had one vaccination.
MarshaBradyo · 19/03/2021 11:18

@Quartz2208

All this mixing when you have been vaccinated even though the rules don’t allow it just shows that people don’t get vaccinations and how they work (they by no means are 100% effective at stopping transmission or disease) shows the problem
It is an odd way to look at it.
MarshaBradyo · 19/03/2021 11:19

I mean I agree with you

StarCat2020 · 19/03/2021 12:20

All this mixing when you have been vaccinated even though the rules don’t allow it
This was a major point raised in one of the SAGE meeting.

Basically that there would be lack of adherence to the rules by people once they were vaccinated.

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