To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

@mumsneedwine Israel has been using the Pfizer vaccine which hasn’t been associated with the particular type of clot the AZ one is being investigated over.

Again, we also haven’t had any incidences in the UK with AZ but we have our own manufacturing capabilities. I strongly believe that if there is an association it won’t be the actual vaccine causing it but something along the process of making and delivering it.

@Flaunch

All the more vaccines for us 🤷🏽‍♀️

They’ve still got a cob on that they are so far behind us. It’s going to be even worse now.

Agree with this

@FourTeaFallOut

Jabs have only been stopped in some countries, temporarily, as a precautionary measure. What is wrong with that and why do you care so much?

Because this abundance of caution further feeds vaccine hesitancy and more people will die as a result.

Not here. Denmark's not a vaccine-skeptic nation (we have our share obviously, but it's a small one.) It is a nation that expects scientific diligence though and might be a little more skeptical if felt things weren't checked thoroughly. When (and I'm certain enough to say 'when') AZ gets the thumbs up again there'll be no problem rolling it out.

I'm sorry if other countries have issues but... not our circus.

Has it occurred to anyone that the UK has the worst death toll in Europe, that the pandemic has been managed so badly here (eat out to help out, anyone?), that our leadership has completely discredited itself, that our politicians are seen as complete idiots in Europe, and maybe that's why the people and politicians don't trust a vaccine developed here?

The US leaves 30 million AZ vaccines sitting in Ohio because the US haven't authorized the vaccine.
www.newsweek.com/30-million-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-doses-sitting-ohio-company-awaits-fda-approval-1575849

Switzerland rejects the AstraZeneca vaccine
www.ft.com/content/a6a6d64c-a337-4af4-9525-d194571c7887

Norway reports three more ‘severe blood clots or brain haemorrhages’ after AstraZeneca jab:
www.thelocal.no/20210314/norway-reports-three-more-severe-blood-clots-or-brain-haemorrhages-after-astrazeneca-jab/

You are so right, OP.

US, Switzerland and Norway - EU fuckwits the lot of them!

I'm sorry if other countries have issues but... not our circus.

Not your circus... not your dead people? Good for you. Let's see how that plays out for countries whose r0 is now well over one with only 7% of the population but as you say, not our circus either.

7% of the population vaccinated.

@Worknoplay

Has it occurred to anyone that the UK has the worst death toll in Europe, that the pandemic has been managed so badly here (eat out to help out, anyone?), that our leadership has completely discredited itself, that our politicians are seen as complete idiots in Europe, and maybe that's why the people and politicians don't trust a vaccine developed here?

Another idiot. It's not politicians that authorize whether a vaccine is safe or not. There's such a thing as peer review, sophisticated randomized control trials, and scientific consensus. If it was developed by accredited scientists in Zimbabwe and achieved scientific consensus by rigorous testing it would be just as valid.

@FullofCurryandparatha Actually Pfizer have also reported a similar number of blood clots.

mumneedswine yes we agree thatthe rhetoric is dangerous. Vaccine nationalism is getting really ugly in the UK. Yes I am shocked and I wonder where this will lead.

@Worknoplay

Has it occurred to anyone that the UK has the worst death toll in Europe, that the pandemic has been managed so badly here (eat out to help out, anyone?), that our leadership has completely discredited itself, that our politicians are seen as complete idiots in Europe, and maybe that's why the people and politicians don't trust a vaccine developed here?

Right. So because our politicians are idiots they don’t trust a vaccine that was very much developed by scientists, not politicians

Incidentally, many European countries have been told that their AZ supplies would be further reduced. I imagine their citizens would be quite annoyed about that and their gov not having enough vaccines for them...

Well, I've heard loads of people in the UK saying that they wouldn't have a vaccine manufactured in Russia or in China. Because many people don't trust them. Why don't we have the vaccine developed in Russia?

@FourTeaFallOut

I'm sorry if other countries have issues but... not our circus.

Not your circus... not your dead people? Good for you. Let's see how that plays out for countries whose r0 is now well over one with only 7% of the population but as you say, not our circus either.

It's horrible, truly, but you can't say to one country "Don't follow your procedures because people in another country will take it the wrong way" can you?

My sister is seething. She is in Belgium and they are only 4% vaccinated and this will slow things down still further

By pausing it, there'll probably be more people die of covid by not being vaccinated sooner.

Not in countries that don't use much AZ and have plenty of other vaccines. Pausing one vaccine is not a problem if they have plenty of something else to use meantime. Norway do, we don't. Pausing is much higher risk for us than it is for Norway.

Personally I find it reassuring that concerns are being investigated.

The question is not whether to investigate concerns - of course we must! The question is whether it is safer to suspend vaccination until the concerns have been investigated. And on the evidence so far it is not safer to suspend AZ vaccination in Britain.

@RedcurrantPuff

Even if there is a link why would you stop a vaccine programme that will save thousands of lives and help stop a pandemic because of a few deaths?

...because there is very little threat posed to me from the virus - I would only be having the vaccine as an altruistic measure to protect others.

That’s quite an ask when there are known safety concerns about the vaccine; it shifts the cost/benefit analysis quite dramatically.

@Worknoplay

Well, I've heard loads of people in the UK saying that they wouldn't have a vaccine manufactured in Russia or in China. Because many people don't trust them. Why don't we have the vaccine developed in Russia?

Well, I haven't. Most people wouldn't have it because these are not yet approved by the MHRA and most people would were that to change.

[quote annonnymous]@FullofCurryandparatha Actually Pfizer have also reported a similar number of blood clots. [/quote]
Not with the symptoms seen in Denmark and Norway. They are not just mere 'blood clots,' the symptoms go beyond that.

It seems that they are just trying to make a point. I cannot begin to imagine what the Brexit negotiations were like if this is how they are acting.

It is starting to look like we are better off out of the EU. Hopefully we will continue on this trajectory.

@Worknoplay

Well, I've heard loads of people in the UK saying that they wouldn't have a vaccine manufactured in Russia or in China. Because many people don't trust them. Why don't we have the vaccine developed in Russia?

Because we don't need it? Why would you pay more money for the Russian vaccine when we have a perfectly good one already? What a stupid idea.

apparently the vaccine is in short supply

But you would be free to choose not to be vaccinated, @GreenWillow. Why should it mean the vaccine should be stopped altogether?

@Cornettoninja

But seriously, at least here in Denmark the UK is not really unpopular. Perceived as slightly batshit mental perhaps

That’s fair

I agree. To be honest, Britain is not popular in Europe at the moment and surprise, surprise it never was. Britain exceptionalism meant that it had to be coached and spoonfed and carried out of the EU at the end of December, having taken it up the arse with what is probably your most disastrous political and economic mistake in peacetime.

Who cares that you think the EU are fuckwits? A fair whack of other Europeans think the British are a shower of stupid bastards for voting for Brexit in the first place.
You're out of the EU now, so jog on.
Your prime minister is an absolute incompetent disgrace who every other country is laughing at and your government are a clatter of out and out robbers and you should be ashamed of yourselves for voting for them.

Its not the EU. The EMA are saying there is no reason to pause their program. I can understand other countries taking a precautionary stance - except while they over-react to data that simply does not show any causal link, thousands more will catch covid and die. The more prevalent covid is, the more likely we are to have more variants. The more these countries cast doubt on vaccine safety, the less successful the covax rollout will be to less rich countries.