To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

To Be Honest, I would have preferred the AZ vaccine as it is based around better technology, whereas the Pfizer is the mRNA technology, which is new.
In the UK thousands of deaths have been given of both types.
I would have thought that if there were any deaths of any significance it would be known much more widely.

@GreenWillow my colleague said that. She was 42, fit and healthy. She died of COVID last May. Her children really wish she'd had the chance of a vaccine. I say this because COVID can affect people who think they are safe. I know a 19 year old who can no longer stay awake for more than a few hours. And a 16 year old who needs a lung transplant. It's not all about dying.
Make a decision informed by facts. If that's no vaccine then fine. But don't think COVID can't hurt you. It can.

but looking at the figures, although they are high for people with the virus in france italy and germany for example, their death rate is lower.

because there is very little threat posed to me from the virus

You missed the rather necessary words of death out of that sentence.

I think a 10% risk of long covid is quite important to mention.

The countries that have halted AS vaccine are IMO just using it as their own internal political football to deflect away from the way they have handled the vaccine situation. If they can halt of grounds of "safety" then the people won't be able to object.

Helpful @Taikoo

notice how they call it the British variant going through europe now, which is what caused our most recent lock down.

Yanbu.

I don't want to believe that it's political. I struggle with the idea that decent countries would put politics before immediate risk to their own citizens but that's what it looks like.

On the bright side, more vaccine for us and the commonwealth, and our economy will bounce back faster than theirs, creating opportunities we wouldn't otherwise have had.

@Kettledodger

The countries that have halted AS vaccine are IMO just using it as their own internal political football to deflect away from the way they have handled the vaccine situation. If they can halt of grounds of "safety" then the people won't be able to object.

I agree

For an individual and not the population as a whole, the risk/benefit from an intervention (e.g. a medicine or a vaccine) may be different depending on several factors. For example, for a disease that causes severe disease and death in elderly and mild disease or no symptoms in young people/children, even if the risk is very small from the intervention, this would not be acceptable for the population that is not at risk from the disease. This is what the investigation is all about. Trying to establish whether the risk/benefit is positive for a population as a whole but also for each person as an individual looking at different factors (e.g. age, comorbidities etc.)

On the bright side, more vaccine for us and the commonwealth, and our economy will bounce back faster than theirs, creating opportunities we wouldn't otherwise have had.

It is not us vs them surely?

So if this particular blood clotting disorder, sinus venous thrombosis (usually caused by infection) causes 3-4 cases per million, then out of 300 million people, 1200 would get this in normal circumstances. 300 million have been vaccinated, so 40 cases seems statistically reasonable and coincidental?

@Inthevirtualwaitingroom

notice how they call it the British variant going through europe now, which is what caused our most recent lock down.

I don't think there's much in that. It beats calling it by its registration plate name.

why arent Germany having the Pfizer?

@Kettledodger

The countries that have halted AS vaccine are IMO just using it as their own internal political football to deflect away from the way they have handled the vaccine situation. If they can halt of grounds of "safety" then the people won't be able to object.

Denmark was the first to pause. Denmark is doing the best of all EU countries at '% vaccinated' and still in the stop few globally.

We are (on the whole) very satisfied with the vaccination progress and frustrated but understanding of the pause. But we are still receiving far greater quantities of Pfizer anyway so it's not a massive pause.

Your post is very insulting to the intellect of us, 'the people.'

The EU were so slow to accept that vaccines were proven safe that they didn’t order until the last minute and now yet more prevarication while they lay the blame elsewhere. It certainly looks like a political ploy as they struggle to justify the slow roll out. I voted remain and was distressed by Brexit. However, since the vaccination roll out they appear, to my eyes, to show their true colours. I will never forget that German MEP shouting “We will show them our weapons”. It evoked childhood memories that have stayed with me all my life. Then the attempted obstruction of deliveries demanding recent orders which had been ordered by the UK months before and at a much higher price than the EU were paying. For goodness sake don’t let their scepticism prevent you having a vaccination which has been given to millions with no greater risk than the Phizer or any other vaccination. Also consider if you don’t have it you will also be at risk of blood clots as it happens whether you are vaccinated or not. However, this virus is blighting our lives. Let’s beat it and let the UK lead the way back to some normality.

yes true @FourTeaFallOut,
however we also went into lockdown in January they said due to the variant from Kent, ie new British, which is spreading through europe, whatever its name

@Inthevirtualwaitingroom

notice how they call it the British variant going through europe now, which is what caused our most recent lock down.

But it is the British variant spreading across Europe right now??

yes @IkkeMig,
and that caused our latest lockdown

@Kettledodger

The countries that have halted AS vaccine are IMO just using it as their own internal political football to deflect away from the way they have handled the vaccine situation. If they can halt of grounds of "safety" then the people won't be able to object.

Denmark has been achieving very good vaccination rates, yet it was the first to stop using AZ pending further investigation.

it does appear like sour grapes

otoh,
would such news deter people in the uk from having the vaccine?

@Kettledodger

The countries that have halted AS vaccine are IMO just using it as their own internal political football to deflect away from the way they have handled the vaccine situation. If they can halt of grounds of "safety" then the people won't be able to object.

The Irish government message has been 'the issue is with supply, we're rolling it out as fast as it's coming in'. How does it benefit them if people can now blame them for suspending the roll out?

@FatCatThinCat

Norway suspended use of it because they had multiple adverse reaction reports from their own vaccinators. They were getting reports back of blood clots, skin haemorrhages and brain haemorrhages in younger people. But yeah, they're utter fuckwits for pausing its use while they investigate.

And Norway aren't even in the EU

have such blood clots been reported in the UK?