To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

Don't think they're fuckwits for doing so but I'm so glad we are persevering with AZ vaccine. The reason our cases our way down, our deaths are way down and we are slowly coming out of lockdown is almost completely due to our fantastic vaccine effort.
Meanwhile countries like Italy and France are seeing another surge and more lockdowns ahead - countries who've had a dreadful record on vaccinations.
I do think they're being over cautious - the EU's own health regulator has said the vaccine is safe and the rate of these blood clots exactly tallies those experienced with Pzifer etc..

@Lindy2

I heard the EU are meeting on Thursday to discuss it. THURSDAY! Nearly a weeks wait before they even get their beaurocratic arises in gear enough to have a talk about it.

Even after they talk about it they'll need to go through their disagreeing about the decision, arguing a bit, changing their mind, finally making a decision and arranging another meeting in another week's time to talk about it a bit more, processes.

If the UK Government was bumbling along like that there would be outrage. Thank God we are in a position to just get on with saving lives.

enough with the anti-EU sentiment and misinformation. The EMA is investigating this thoroughly and is regularly providing updates: www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/emas-safety-committee-continues-investigation-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-thromboembolic-events As you see from the link, the safety committee is continuously reviewing the information with a meeting of experts planned for Thursday.

Had vaccine yesterday at 4pm. Feel absolutely fine today. Arm a tiny bit sore but it's hurt worse when I'm done exercise. I'm so grateful to our wonderful scientists. If you don't want it just make way for those that do.

[quote BuggerBognor]@RedcurrantPuff ODFOD

It’s entirely up to me what I put in my body. Listen to yourself. “Haha you think you get a choice”. Yes, yes I absolutely fucking do.[/quote]
Actually you don't. Your choice is vaccine or not, not which one you have. Obviously you can choose not to have it.
We caught covid 2 days before my vaccine. My healthy husband in his 30s spent a week in hospital. I would have rather had the vaccine, any vaccine, than go through what we just have.

@notimagain

*It's political, They are saying that each EU country is following the other, & that France (for example) need to show they are as cautious as the others. Its a shit show, I know I live in in the EU*

French national politicians needed to show there own, generally vaccine sceptical population, they were going to consider the situation before continuing using AZ product (which I'm fairly convinced they will)

I know, I live in France.

Exactly .I live in Germany

It astounds me how many people have a DH or similar who is very high up in the NHS or a very senior scientist. Always the DH or a family member though, never the poster themselves...

Personally I think many European countries have erred a bit too far on the side of caution when it comes to the vaccines (not assuming liability for issues, restricting AZ to over 65's, concerns about delaying the second dose etc) but ultimately each governments as to balance the risks for themselves and is entitled to do so.

I'm glad the programme in the U.K. is unaffected and hopefully the reviews currently being undertaken will provide the necessary reassurance and things will get back on track ASAP.

Except the UK has done millions of this vaccine, and not seen any appreciable issues

@Bakeachocolatecake2day - I literally said that

DP had his AZ vaccine yesterday and I’ve already had mine. I’m not anti-AZ at all and not particularly concerned about the UK supply precisely because the same issue hasn’t been seen here despite millions of doses.

However, a small number of specific types of clots in a short timescale are absolutely worthy of further scrutiny by the EU to rule out any issues in the manufacturing, storage or delivery process. I can’t imagine any other scenario I would be questioning the suspension of a medication in the same circumstance.

Again the presentation by the media is what’s responsible for whipping up emotions imho. They could easily present this in a non-alarmist, informative manner but they chose not to.

If they brought in vaccine passports I wonder how many "anti vaxxers" would get vaccinated just so they could go to the pub.
Seems alot of people are jumping on this on social media, especially Facebook to scare the shit out of anyone who's had the vaccine.

@FullofCurryandparatha I also
Said nothing anti eu at all I asked a question as pfizer has had reports to a nice normal poster from I believe Denmark explained why quite nicely and that is why I asked to gain knowledge
I really don't care enough about the eu either way if Im honest , I don't live there

@Alexandernevermind
the UK is very unpopular right now - no point entering Eurovison!

Well, recent entries by the UK suggest there might not have been much point anyway...

But seriously, at least here in Denmark the UK is not really unpopular. Perceived as slightly batshit mental perhaps, but not hated at all. Besides, we need you to carry on buying all our back bacon, tariffs or not...

@Sunshinegirl82 yes its like the nhs spouse site

I only know plebs.

Noone has had much reaction to either vaccine. One who is a carer felt rough the next couple of days and she (and we armchair virologists) think she's had covid already.

[quote BuggerBognor]@donewithitalltodayandxmas my husband had a severe adverse reaction to AZ which terrified me and my SN DS. DH is a doctor btw. Every single one of his colleagues was quite significantly unwell.

If the NHS doesn’t want wasted appointments they should give people the choice. Or maybe they’re worried nobody would choose AZ because of these (and other) adverse reports.[/quote]
Bloody hell

For those comparing it to taking the pill, this is from The German MP and professor of health economics and epidemiology at the University of Cologne Karl Lauterbach (who goes on to state he WOULD take the AZ vaccine before anyone accuses him of having a Brexit grudge!)

"This type of cerebral vein thrombosis in combination with a hemolytic-uremic syndrome phenomenon is so rare that it can probably be traced back to the vaccination. The comparison with the risk of thrombosis when taking the pill was not entirely permissible because the severity of the symptoms is completely different "

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/mar/16/coronavirus-live-news-keep-using-astrazenecaoxford-vaccine-says-who

Posters here talking about 'our vaccine' seem to be taking this as a personal slight.

I am flabbergasted at the amount of vitriol in the UK over this, and the desire to turn it into a political issue. Why are you so angry OP? If there were deaths somehow connected to the Russian vaccine in the UK, would you want that investigated or not? Jabs have only been stopped in some countries, temporarily, as a precautionary measure. What is wrong with that and why do you care so much?

This isn’t communist Russia. Do you really think private vaccination won’t be a thing in the coming months

@BuggerBognor honestly I don’t think it will be, certainly not in the UK at least. Maybe in a couple of years.

There’s a global demand for the vaccines and massive ethical issues making it available privately whilst countries are still waiting for manufacture and delivery of their orders.

I had the AZ and other than a sore arm, tiredness and v mild fluey symptoms which were easily managed with paracetamol was fine. Completely managed to carry on my normal life with no problems

[quote BuggerBognor]@RedcurrantPuff ODFOD

It’s entirely up to me what I put in my body. Listen to yourself. “Haha you think you get a choice”. Yes, yes I absolutely fucking do.[/quote]
I’m a GP and we’re only getting enough Pfizer jabs to give the second doses from now on I believe. So we won’t be giving any first dose Pfizer’s. You might want to check before you turn down AZ.

@FatCatThinCat

Norway suspended use of it because they had multiple adverse reaction reports from their own vaccinators. They were getting reports back of blood clots, skin haemorrhages and brain haemorrhages in younger people. But yeah, they're utter fuckwits for pausing its use while they investigate.

By pausing it, there'll probably be more people die of covid by not being vaccinated sooner.

It is very political and the EU are facing harsh criticism from their own citizens, for the abject failure in procuring and distributing vaccines. The EU absolutely hates the fact that the UK was well ahead of the game in rolling out vaccines. The EU also using politics to try to dissuade countries from using the Russian and Chinese vaccines.
What is the alternative EU?
Cutting off your nose to spite your face - let's see how that works out.

@BuggerBognor yet I know people who have had it with no effects so its depends on who you know and what
But surely if your dh is a dr he knows why a choice can't be given as 1 . What if everyone wanted the same vaccine and there isn't enough 2. It would slow down the process hugely so would expect he would know why there isn't a choice