To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

why does stopping the AZ rollout help Merkel or Macron? esp as CV sweeps through their countries, damaging their economy and killing their citizens? surely an effective vaccine program will help their election chances?

Exactly...the slow vaccine rollout in France sure as heck hasn't improved his chances of re-election next year.

To come up with a theory that somehow he will gain an electoral advantage by now reducing the rate of vaccination just when the program had got going is frankly heading into deep rabbit hole/tin foil hat territory

Castigating countries who have called the risks a little differently seems harsh and possibly motivated by political sentiments

This is gas lighting!

Because the opposite is true.

The EMA and WHO have confirmed just today in their latest brief that the vaccine is safe jaundice, so who is holding back the vaccine for political reasons? It is certainly not the UK is it?

It is the EU. They are choosing to ignore their own medical regulation agency!

@FullofCurryandparatha

Is anyone using the term categorically safe on here

yes, a pp said the EMA sais AZ was categorically safe. Hence my rebuttal of same.

I still don't see how it's an EU thing when so many of the countries aren't in the EU and the EU European Medicines Agency is not pushing this. Quite the reverse

It's not an EU thing. But since when did reality stop the frothing?

The EMA have an update on their website. They are not using terms like categorically safe. That must be a poster or paper attributing it to them. They'd be much more measured than that as there were adverse events.

As previously stated, while its investigation is ongoing, EMA currently remains of the view that the benefits of the AstraZeneca vaccine in preventing COVID-19, with its associated risk of hospitalisation and death, outweigh the risks of side effects.While their pharmacovigilance committee are assessing the data to because there have been adverse events.

They remain of the view that the benefits outweigh the risks, pending the assessment of the adverse events data.

The investigation is being carried out in the context of a safety signal, under an accelerated timetable. A safety signal is information on a new or incompletely documented adverse event .

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/investigation-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-thromboembolic-events-continues

Do the EMA not know (like the posters on this thread) that the adverse effect is non existent. It is really the murderous EU gov't's who want to kill off half their populations (maybe more)! A ploy!!!

Most of the EU are relying solely on the AZ vaccine. France especially
No they're not. They've got Pfizer, Moderna and newly approved J&J(which is single dose). Plus some SOVEREIGN (surprise surprise) countries in EU like Hungary decided to use SPUTNIK V, which is the same type of vaccine as AZ. And don't forget that there are 22(!) vaccines in phase 3 trails, so there'll be plenty of vaccines to choose from in second half of 2021.

@Itsalonghaul

What possible political gain is there for any country pulling AZ ?

Well the vaccines are just about to dry up in the EU for months and months with no replacement, perhaps it is easier to say to a vaccine wary nation that you are doing it to 'protect' them, and that your governance is superior to all of those other nations that are beating you by vaccinating millions and millions more. Than to tell the truth perhaps?

Very French tactic, very Macron.

We have superior checks he will say, we have superior knowledge he will claim, not that we are just abit shit, and abit slow, and were outgunned by other speedy nations, mainly Brexit Britain, which rankles more than a little jas

Just as Macron has to sell more European integration to the weary French....not ideal timing one might say.

Merkel is washed up and over, and is going along with anything at this point counting down until she can leave.

Anyone that does not know this, really needs to get out or read abit more. It is painfully obvious to anyone what is happening.

Have you compared Macron's analysis of how France handled Covid last year to comments made by any members of the UK gvmt on their handling of the pandemic, PPE, etc?

Do you know what he actually said about AZ and over-65s? Or what he and his ministers have said about the pause?

I am not a fan of Macron by any means, and many of his policies are anathema to me, but the idea that he would make the kind of comment you suggest is frankly laughable. The only vaccine nationalism I've come across has been from UK ministers and subjects, fuelled by some sections of the media. It's extremely distasteful. And a convenient distraction from other issues.

not

But you are missing the trick. Macron and EU have totally messed up the vaccine procurement, they can't change that now (despite their ruthless efforts to do so) It is done so to speak, so now they are in rescue mode. And the only way out now is to tell the French electorate that the AZ vaccine was not good enough for them. They lied about the efficacy in older people, and now they are lying about this.

By rubbishing the vaccine and telling the French public it is for their 'own good' and for their 'protection' that the vaccines have been halted, they can appear to be a careful, cautious caring government (and not gung ho like Israel, US and Boris's Britain) Marcon may at least claw back those that were already vaccine sceptical - that are the majority in France anyway

They are in damage limitation mode now.

I am surprised you can't see this. It is as clear as day.

Do you know what he actually said about AZ and over-65s?

What did he say?
This was reported but was it different?

Emmanuel Macron claimed that it was "quasi-ineffective" for people over 65.

He added that "the early results we have are not encouraging for 60 to 65-year-old people concerning AstraZeneca".

A little reminder for Auld as to what actually happened when Macron rubbished the AZ efficacy in the over 65s:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/02/france-approves-astrazeneca-vaccine-over-65s-despite-president/

If France had successfully produced a world class vaccine at cost price, I am sure Macron would be telling the world and his dog about it!! Sadly the French vaccine failed, and is one of the reasons why the EU is in the mess it is in. It might be better if you didn't rewrite history.
Please don't talk to me about nationalism. I have never been to a place more nationalistic than France!!!!

Is this a propaganda thread or something? And it is medicines agency, not medical agency.

Well, possibly they're only pretending there are any adverse events to kill off the world. Merkel went up to Norway and paid a load of fellow to fake a few problems. At the same time Macron went to Italy (well he must be resentful of their tans) and did a deal with the mafia. Now the EMA are in on it and pretending they are doing an investigation. Instead they're really just eating brownies and watching 'Modern Family'. All because of Brexit.

Is that roughly where we're at?

@Itsalonghaul

You re in tin foil hat territory now.

its not just France and the french peoples (i know the country quite well) can look at how well other vaccination programs are doing and vote accordingly.

@Itsalonghaul

not

But you are missing the trick. Macron and EU have totally messed up the vaccine procurement, they can't change that now (despite their ruthless efforts to do so) It is done so to speak, so now they are in rescue mode. And the only way out now is to tell the French electorate that the AZ vaccine was not good enough for them. They lied about the efficacy in older people, and now they are lying about this.

By rubbishing the vaccine and telling the French public it is for their 'own good' and for their 'protection' that the vaccines have been halted, they can appear to be a careful, cautious caring government (and not gung ho like Israel, US and Boris's Britain) Marcon may at least claw back those that were already vaccine sceptical - that are the majority in France anyway

They are in damage limitation mode now.

I am surprised you can't see this. It is as clear as day.

I kind of agree with you its deflection from past shit show.

Anyway I really wanted to know more about j&j when ita available we know its approved.
Late April at earliest
Trying to upscale production
Will probably not meet the orders made for 2nd quarter.

Its a ever familiar story with every vaccine.
It takes time to increase yeild and production.
Took az uk 3months iron out issues.
Phizer had issues
Moderna also undelivered

Yet they only attacked astrazeneca

www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/europe-approves-johnson-johnson-s-covid-19-vaccine-first-one-dose-option

This article explains issues.

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-vaccine-idUSKBN29Y1CD

And so much for EU unity?! They have been divided by everything so far, and this is no exception. One half of the EU have confidence in the EU medical regulator and continue to use the vaccine, the other half have suspended it.

Not exactly the look the EU commission was aiming for when it thought vaccine procurement was just a stroll in the park for the big boys of the EU, and a guaranteed way to show all Europeans how very lucky they are to have the bureaucrats holding their life saving vaccine contracts. Didn't work out like that, and now they need a scapegoat.

jas Genuinely wish I was having a tin foil hat moment, wouldn't that be great, because it would mean that thousands, potentially millions of Europeans would not die because the EU fucked up.

Sadly for you, I am not in a tin foil hat mood, I am just saying it how it is.

France are especially aggrieved and I suspect embarrassed by their vaccine failure, they could be dignified and graceful, but instead have become bitter and vengeful. I say this as a great fan of France. France is not Marcon, they are an intelligent nation and the true scale of this failure and dishonesty will not be lost on them.

This was the medical regulator that was going to poach all the best staff from London, was it not?

EU countries have less vaccine expertise. The UK has a good history with them, and has some really good people with lots of experience involved in AZ.

We can be confident here - the politics are because of pressure within the European Union and probably, to come out shortly that the EU will have a shortage of supply despite their promises for Q2. Wait for that one

Ok, itsalonghaul has confirmed she's an anti-EU troll (possibly a conspiracy theorist as well). Can we move on please?

@Itsalonghaul And so much for EU unity?! They have been divided by everything so far, and this is no exception. One half of the EU have confidence in the EU medical regulator and continue to use the vaccine, the other half have suspended it.

Goodness, you sure have a lot of vitriol. Who is the EU medical regulator? What do they regulate? I know it is not medicines.

It is a pity you don't have any idea what you are talking about on this issue. You can't even get the name of the EMA right.

Do you do engage in this sort of propaganda much?

... and probably, to come out shortly that the EU will have a shortage of supply despite their promises for Q2. Wait for that one

Yes, looking forward to Ursula's next chapter on how to make friends and influence people.

@Itsalonghaul

The AZ is being rolled out internationally across the whole world, so only 15 countries mostly in Europe.

17 out of 41 countries using AZ have temporarily halted by my count.

Thailand started up again, but Indonesia Venezuela and DRC are still paused.

Apologies if this has already been covered up the thread but does anyone know whether these blood clot cases were after the first or the second dose of AZ?

I did hear someone on Radio 5 Live this morning explaining that, at least in Germany, a specific brain blood clot incidence was higher than would normally be expected but we're talking 7 cases compared with normally 1, so still very low number of cases overall.

I am sorry that you have nothing better and more strident to add than the difference between two words. Is that all you can really say on the matter?

For the record I am/was a remain voter, and consider myself thoroughly European! I have a house overseas and have spent the best years of my life there. So please don't try to label me.

I am just exasperated!

@j712adrian

I think the reality which people are in complete rhetorical denial about is producing a vaccine so quickly was bound to lead to death and injury.

So no, the EU countries aren't stupid, but some English people will swallow whatever rubbish the government gives them.

And unlike England, the EU actually does have a future instead of as most of the world's press reports report, England being the new failed state.

Man, I could just imagine the snarl made when typing that. Claws out and everything bravo man.

Best of luck if you are posting from one of the suspended countries, it must be a very worrying time for you - I genuinely hope it works out for you utz

I agree. The EU has quite a few times this year made themselves look very foolish. We could list them all, but most of them know what they are. (Von der Leyen’s comments etc)

Man, I could just imagine the snarl made when typing that. Claws out and everything grin bravo man.

Ha people are really going for it. So much vitriol. Plus didn’t the EMA approve it

Best of luck if you are posting from one of the suspended countries, it must be a very worrying time for you

It really isn't.

Is it that the British are so used to getting everything so badly wrong that they are basking in the notion that they alone have done something right? And by right I mean threw all their remaining money at vaccines, paying massively over the odds and being slightly quicker than everyone else.