To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

What possible political gain is there for any country pulling AZ ?

Well the vaccines are just about to dry up in the EU for months and months with no replacement, perhaps it is easier to say to a vaccine wary nation that you are doing it to 'protect' them, and that your governance is superior to all of those other nations that are beating you by vaccinating millions and millions more. Than to tell the truth perhaps?

Very French tactic, very Macron.

We have superior checks he will say, we have superior knowledge he will claim, not that we are just abit shit, and abit slow, and were outgunned by other speedy nations, mainly Brexit Britain, which rankles more than a little jas

Just as Macron has to sell more European integration to the weary French....not ideal timing one might say.

Merkel is washed up and over, and is going along with anything at this point counting down until she can leave.

Anyone that does not know this, really needs to get out or read abit more. It is painfully obvious to anyone what is happening.

AZ vaccine is being paused for a FEW DAYS. All other vaccines are going ahead. Thousands of people will not die because the AZ vaccine has been paused for a few days

I think they will. How many will continue to believe that there isn’t an issue with AZ long after the vaccination programme has restarted. How many already nervous people won’t now get the vaccine.
How many who would have had the vaccine in the days that it was paused or decide not to get it because of this news will be infected with Covid and spread the virus.
This isn’t about the immediate few days in a few EU countries this is about the years till Covid is no more and affects every country in the world

If anything the amount of people dying from blood clots has actually reduced.

@Belladonna12

That's literally what's being investigated though. As has been pointed out here, the specific type of clotting observed appears to be displaying an unusual pattern which could imply a higher risk.

I've seen that in the newspapers, but the official regulatory authorities aren't claiming that it is so unusual that it couldn't happen to a small number of people among millions.

The 'official regulatory authorities aren't claiming that'.

What about the unofficial regulatory authorities? What are they claiming?

@Itsalonghaul

Oh wow, you're one of those.

It's likely that the vaccine's caused the blood clots isn't it? Well - that's what needs to be investigated, at least.

What if it was not investigated and you went on to die as a result of blood clots or live with the consequences? How would you (or your family) feel about your country's approach to this then?

Did UK give a shit about poorer countries when it decided to hoard vaccines and said they would only consider donating some once all citizens are vaccinated twice plus there's enough boosters ?

What’s wrong with making sure you have full vaccination schedule available?

Plus isn’t U.K. donating more than EU?

@notimagain

From the Reuters piece:

"“We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one,"

Not sure what's controversial or jaw dropping about that, if anything.

Yes! Sweden and Finland have said that they will follow the EMA advice. The remaining countries... well no for some reason.

It looks very political, but also, as if the relevant countries are actually struggling with supply and also their own expertise to make an assessment. Britain is (Brexit irrespective) a world leader in science and pharma. That does count and other countries may struggle to have their own expertise for vaccines. Given the relative performance elsewhere in the EU, this is fair commment.

@Dustyboots

According to some it's doesn't matter as long as it's not covid and you should just sacrifice yourself for greater good.

AZ vaccine is being paused for a FEW DAYS. All other vaccines are going ahead. Thousands of people will not die because the AZ vaccine has been paused for a few days

As soon as the Europeans realise this is also happening (more) with the Pjizer jab do you really think they want that one? No, because they have now been convinced/brain washed to be very worried about all covid vaccines now thanks to their respective governments.

Trust, as we all know, once it has gone it has gone.

This is awful news for all of the countries affected. France already had a hugely sceptical nation to start with, even without all of these damaging lies.

Well the vaccines are just about to dry up in the EU for months and months with no replacement

Except Pfizer is sending extra doses to the EU for Q2. Not to mention Johson and Johnson likely in April/May.

These accelerated 10 million doses will bring the total doses of BioNTech-Pfizer in Quarter 2 up to over 200 million. This is very good news. It gives Member States room to manoeuvre and possibly fill gaps in deliveries.”
ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_21_1202

@Dustyboots

It's likely that the vaccine's caused the blood clots isn't it? Well - that's what needs to be investigated, at least.

What if it was not investigated and you went on to die as a result of blood clots or live with the consequences? How would you (or your family) feel about your country's approach to this then?

Why is it likely? All I’ve heard is spokespeople (French person on R4 cited below for example) talk about Pfizer having higher incidence - is there something about the AZ data that’s different?

The UK is donating more vaccines to poorer countries than all of the EU put together, and has called on and requested that the EU abides by its obligations, which is not terribly likely given the vaccine drought.

The vaccines are not going to dry up in the next few months. Supply in Denmark is due to at least quadruple in the next few weeks even without the az. That doesn’t take into account any other vaccines like the Johnson and Johnson.

@Itsalonghaul

What possible political gain is there for any country pulling AZ ?

Well the vaccines are just about to dry up in the EU for months and months with no replacement, perhaps it is easier to say to a vaccine wary nation that you are doing it to 'protect' them, and that your governance is superior to all of those other nations that are beating you by vaccinating millions and millions more. Than to tell the truth perhaps?

Very French tactic, very Macron.

We have superior checks he will say, we have superior knowledge he will claim, not that we are just abit shit, and abit slow, and were outgunned by other speedy nations, mainly Brexit Britain, which rankles more than a little jas

Just as Macron has to sell more European integration to the weary French....not ideal timing one might say.

Merkel is washed up and over, and is going along with anything at this point counting down until she can leave.

Anyone that does not know this, really needs to get out or read abit more. It is painfully obvious to anyone what is happening.

Actually, it is the EMA who has instigating the pause.

And the WHO.

Did UK give a shit about poorer countries when it decided to hoard vaccines and said they would only consider donating some once all citizens are vaccinated twice plus there's enough boosters

But the poorer countries aren’t seeing the same issues as the wealthier countries probably because with an abundance of food we are much fatter nations

The poorer countries in Africa don’t have the same issues as somewhere like the UK. In this scenario we are the ones needing the help. We need to vaccinate our own people first

I wouldn't hold your breath for the j&j vaccine.

www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/johnson-johnson-runs-into-vaccine-supply-issues-europe-threatening-second-quarter-delivery

@MarshaBradyo

What’s wrong with making sure you have full vaccination schedule available?
Plus isn’t U.K. donating more than EU?

I was specifically referring to itsalonghaul who said that EU's decision have an impact on vaccine hesitancy in Africa. Following that argument UK's decision to hoard vaccines and give them to non-vulnerable instead of donating these doses, so poorer countries can access them quicker have an impact on vaccination in Africa too.

grape Most of the EU are relying solely on the AZ vaccine. France especially.
The logistics of rolling out Pfizer are complex due to the temperatures that it must be stored at, and it is very very expensive.

The French vaccine failed so that one won't be happening until at least christmas best case.

Johnson and Johnson is some way off and May may be optimistic.

France and the rest of the EU are screwed without AZ which is why they have kicked off in such an unedifying manner for the last few months. They have tried everything to get their hands on more AZ, and when that failed they have had a hissy fit and decided it wasn't good enough anyway. So childish, it wouldn't be so bad if thousands of lives were not at stake.

It is beyond irresponsible.

YABU.

The U.K. is, on the face of it, doing well with the vaccination programme. However, we have paid more than other countries for access to vaccines and we have granted manufacturers waivers from responsibility if things go wrong.

This might prove to be a risk worth taking, but it is certainly a risk. Only time will prove whether it not it was a reasonable call. Castigating countries who have called the risks a little differently seems harsh and possibly motivated by political sentiments.

@fernom

Actually, it is the EMA who has instigating the pause.

And the WHO.

Both the EMA and WHO have advised AZ vaccination should continue and not be put on hold.

utz the 'non vulnerable' can still die from Covid, so the right thing to do is to vaccinate every one that is potentially likely to be ill or seriously ill.
In order to resume any kind of life we need to reach herd immunity.

The issue is that Africa is now watching the EU play games and the people there will become even more fearful of the vaccine. It is exactly the action that all governments should avoid, trust is fragile, very fragile and yet the EU could not care less that they are causing so much damage to countries that can ill afford a huge pandemic. Disgraceful in the extreme, and it will never be forgotten.

Both the EMA and WHO have advised AZ vaccination should continue and not be put on hold.

Thanks for this. It’s hard to follow as info seems mixed up on here

@Itsalonghaul

....sorry but that doesn't make sense, no vaccines mean an overwhelmed health service, deaths and a wrecked economy, meanwhile countries with vaccines will see a resurgence..... the voters of France Germany etc will see this and blame their current Govt's, especially as they will also see little or no side effects from AZ.

But where your theory falls down, is that AstraZeneca is 50% european (Swedish) has a french CEO :) and many who worked on the Oxford project are EU scientists.

No european country or leader has any reason to rubbish the AZ vaccine for political reasons.

Castigating countries who have called the risks a little differently seems harsh and possibly motivated by political sentiments.

No shit. This thread has been full of disgusting examples of misinformation and exaggeration in the service of British exceptionalism and EU bashing. The (many) sane and reasonable voices are being drowned out.

Muting it now in favour of a glass of wine.

@MarshaBradyo

Both the EMA and WHO have advised AZ vaccination should continue and not be put on hold.

Thanks for this. It’s hard to follow as info seems mixed up on here

So much misinformation being spread in this thread!

BBC article summarises it nicely: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56404542

"The World Health Organization (WHO) has urged countries not to pause Covid vaccinations, as several major EU member states halted their rollouts of the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab.

It said there was no evidence of a link between the vaccine and blood clots.

Germany, France, Italy and Spain joined smaller nations in halting vaccinations as a precaution while checks are made.

The WHO's vaccine safety experts are meeting on Tuesday to discuss the jab.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) will meet on the same day and is due to draw conclusions on Thursday. It has also said the vaccine should continue to be used."