To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

Reuters:

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-astrazeneca/suspension-of-astrazeneca-shots-is-political-decision-italys-medicines-regulator-head-idUSKBN2B80KK

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/16/merkels-government-war-astrazeneca-disaster-eu-vaccine-chaos/

Italy's medicines authority says suspension was 'political' as anger grows in Berlin over delay to vaccination program

As someone said on radio 4, it's fairly easy to suspend Oxford vaccinations, when you ve got nearly none of it anyway...remember it was being trucked out of Belgium to the UK, whilst the astra zenica executives were telling EU countries they didn't have enough of it to fulfil contracted deliveries...I think there's very little good will towards that vaccine over there, and more alternatives coming online all the time

[quote beckypv]@lumene
If no one got blood clots after having the vaccine, the vaccine would be a cure for blood clots.

That is a very good point 😀[/quote]
While it isn't a cure, the statistics indicate a lower rate of blood clots post-vaccine than one would expect ordinarily.

So another reason to accept AZ vaccine

@starfro

Macron is today talking about suing AZ because they aren't delivering enough vaccines.

I suspect this is all just cover for the fact they don't have enough vaccines. The Italian regulators have come out and said this was a political decision, not medical.

This.

Lots of elections coming up and vaccine use in the EU is in a mess. They also don’t have a lot of it to spare!

@Gwenhwyfar To answer your question - DH & I are mid / late fifties , so I prefer not to think of ourselves as old but there is your answer . If you think of that as old -

Honestly I reckon in time this argument will be a storm in a tea cup.

I am cautious by nature but I did not think twice about AZ jab.

If it looks like it is going to shuffle me off this mortal coil I will make sure someone posts on MN re AZ on my behalf

We are not discussing the very real damage the EU commission and their poor decision making is doing to countries like AFRICA for example
Where fear of vaccine is well known, and something the governments are doing everything possible to reassure those that are worried. African nations simply do not have the infrastructure to even consider offering pfizer or other vaccines and are relying solely on AZ.

Does anyone from the EU give a damn about the very real impact this is going to have on others, and their campaign to cause as much harm to AZ as possible.

I don't think this is about Brexit, but about the EU stamping their feet because they couldn't push/bully/force pharmas to break contracts for them and fast track vaccines to the detriment of others that were faster to commit and sign contracts. It is outrageous that lives are being, and will continue to be lost in their thousands as the EU spiral into a fully blown crisis, and drag all other vulnerable countries with them.

I am absolutely aghast and horrified as this unfolds, it just gets worse and worse. I am so sad for those that will die due to utter incompetence.

What is really behind this are the elections in Germany in September, and France shortly after. This is becoming very very political, a hot potato actually not because of the UK skirmishes, but because for the first time since the second world war Merkel's party may actually lose, and because Marine Le Pen is neck and neck with Macron now.

For them it is life or death with more than a few thousand lives riding on it. I can't help but feel it is going to be very counter productive.

Sweden, Norway or Latvia don't decide what vaccinations to use based on election schedule in Germany.

Rabid dogs tend to be saner than The Telegraph.

www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/160305/virologist-marc-van-ranst-explains-belgiums-decision-to-continue-using-astrazeneca-vaccine-eu-france-germany-netherlands-blood-clots-ema-vaccination-taskforce/?fbclid=IwAR0kvN5G2ucKJ5Chisr9WL_WEM5gSwSzSGBxIblja2P3qclxLIMROlrngLQ The mad Belgians today explain why they have no issue with AZ.

Both this and Pfizer jab are made in Belgium.

@Jaypreen

Or you could look at it another way: the German state are currently , amongst others, engaged in a programme to deliberately kill its own citizens by deterring them from receiving vaccines.

Apologists for EU intransigence and irresponsibility are alarming with their partisanship. Imagine the roles were reversed: The UK lagged badly behind the EU with its vaccine roll out and Johnson decided to hold the vaccine back from people that need it - in a clear attempt to justify his initial incompetence ?

Characterising the EU's European Medicines Agency making a statement in support of AZ, or singling out just the EU member states from all the countries that are either not currently using or who have suspended use of AZ as "EU intransigence" seems a bit at odds with reality to those of us who don't have that particular bee in our bonnet.

From the Reuters piece:

"“We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one,"

Not sure what's controversial or jaw dropping about that, if anything.

@Itsalonghaul

What is really behind this are the elections in Germany in September, and France shortly after. This is becoming very very political, a hot potato actually not because of the UK skirmishes, but because for the first time since the second world war Merkel's party may actually lose, and because Marine Le Pen is neck and neck with Macron now.

For them it is life or death with more than a few thousand lives riding on it. I can't help but feel it is going to be very counter productive.

What about the other 15? countries all doing the same?

Yes most of them in the EU princess

The AZ is being rolled out internationally across the whole world, so only 15 countries mostly in Europe.

I'm confident the Danish health authorities don't make decisions based on elections in Germany and France, honestly.

lljkk No one can actually be that naive surely.

I’m sceptical about the whole thing - and I’m not getting enraged about it.

I don’t trust the press not to spin this as the “bad” EU (fucks sake, they’ve got their Brexit so not sure why this line is still being spun).

I haven’t however got the time to read into the facts and then take a view.

So, I’m just hoping that the MHRA will do their jobs (and other medicine regulators) and that the vaccines are safe.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Problem is that it is the EU big hitters that are leading the way - Germany, France, Spain and Italy

Those countries and their leaders have huge influence and it’s creating a domino effect

Not so long ago, Germany was the only country pulling the EU strings... now Italy France and Spain have a say too...

What possible political gain is there for any country pulling AZ ?

To many people in the UK inc our own govt, hate anything european.

@MrsIsobelCrawley

Rabid dogs tend to be saner than The Telegraph.

Well the good news is that you don't need to absorb the editorial to recognise the statement of fact which is that the Italian medicine authority have said the decision to suspend the vaccine was a political act.

We all know that the EU is run by Germany and France, those members that believe they are fully independent and free of all control from the EU commission/Germany and France perhaps need to have a closer look at how it works.

The reason why Marcon/Merkel lied about the efficacy of the AZ vaccines (which they have now corrected publicly) was to damage AZ. They have lied and lied, and throwing Northern Ireland and Ireland under a bus was just all part of it. So no, I have no confidence whatsoever in anything that the EU/Merkel and Macron say about the vaccines or anything else, none, the reasons and intentions are born out of ill will, and is deeply damaging to the EU more than anyone else.

The reason why Marcon/Merkel lied about the efficacy of the AZ vaccines (which they have now corrected publicly) was to damage AZ. They have lied and lied, and throwing Northern Ireland and Ireland under a bus was just all part of it

.... but why? why does stopping the AZ rollout help Merkel or Macron? esp as CV sweeps through their countries, damaging their economy and killing their citizens?
surely an effective vaccine program will help their election chances?

As for NI, Johnson did that, there has to be a border between a EU country and a non EU country, its just he is struggling with this WTO requirement..

Avondklok - thank you for posting that link - it's reassuring.

@Itsalonghaul

We are not discussing the very real damage the EU commission and their poor decision making is doing to countries like AFRICA for example

Did UK give a shit about poorer countries when it decided to hoard vaccines and said they would only consider donating some once all citizens are vaccinated twice plus there's enough boosters ?

And AZ isn't the only vaccine currently in use, so don't sweat it.

BTW there's an article about vaccine hesitancy in Africa and the reasons refusal included a belief that COVID-19 does not exist, or its threat is exaggerated. So not necessarily problem with specific vaccines. www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00082-7/fulltext