To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

@Itsalonghaul

EMA EU's own medical regulator still supports the use of AZ vaccine just updated:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56411561

There is no way on earth they would do so if they had any doubts whatsoever. This a complete farce.

Yes, that has always been their statement- to continue vaccinating whilst they complete their investigation. Specific countries have chosen to go against this guidance.

[quote UtzAreBetterThanNuts]@lightand

But it's not UK's problem, is it? Unless the right to go to Marbella in summer is much more pressing than the right to protest. You've got your priorities wrong. Soon you won't be able to say anything about the vaccine even if there will be adverse side effects. Remember that this SPECIFIC adverse reaction happened in the very young people and as far as I'm aware they haven't be vaccinated in UK yet.[/quote]
It is a UK problem because there is the danger that people who are reluctant to take the vaccine anyway, will be even less likely to now that some countries in Europe have suspended it.

@notalwaysalondoner

Some people just REALLY don't understand statistics - the number of pepole on this thread saying 'people have died after taking the vaccine' who seem wilfully blind to the fact that statistically a number of people would have died anyway from blood clots in those 3 days (or whatever) whether they had the vaccine or not... It's so frustrating. Correlation does not mean causation.

That's literally what's being investigated though. As has been pointed out here, the specific type of clotting observed appears to be displaying an unusual pattern which could imply a higher risk.

Who are you to call other countries 'fuckwits', OP? What is it to do with you exactly? Worried about not being able to go on holiday perhaps?

This is a scenario that nobody anticipated and it's for each country to decide their arrangements for themselves. Input from other countries not required. I expect they'd think you a bit of a 'fuckwit'.

There was a thread about the side effects recently. A workplace where many people were so ill they had to stay in bed for a few days. Some people, especially younger ones, do seem to be getting pretty bad side effects, worse than many younger people's experiences of Covid.

I know a lot of people have the vaccine (NHS staff) and nobody has been ill to the extent they needed to stay in bed for a few days. I suspect the people who claim this are just using it as an excuse for a paid day off.

I just wonder how the member state governments are going to explain to the electorate why they have decided to go against their own medical regulator? And to risk millions of lives in the process?

How would that go down here?

Very very badly is the answer. We would have riots if our gov tried to do something like this, is someone deliberately trying to sabotage the EU form the inside? WTAF is going on. This is not fair to the people of Europe literally playing Russian roulette with their lives. The pun was intended.

I am pretty scared for them tbh, the only thing that has kept me sane in all of this is knowing the vaccine is here, and is helping us out of this black hole with every single jab. Grim times, and getting more grim with every passing day, particularly for the EU

@MrsFin

It's funny that we never query the manufacturer of any other vaccine when we're given it, nor who made the medicines we've been prescribed. Yet most medicines and vaccines also have several different manufacturers. We just take what the pharmacist gives us. Why do people think they can demand one Covid vaccine over another?

I am not sure that is actually true - we have about 7 for covid, that's quite unusual.

Anyway if people don't want AZ that's fine, they can go to the back of the queue and wait for the Moderna one which should be onstream in a matter of weeks and the rest of us can move up the waiting list faster and have the AZ one.

@Belladonna12

So you want sovereign countries to stop investigating a new vaccine over serious adverse side effects so it won't affect UK vaccination programme?

That's literally what's being investigated though. As has been pointed out here, the specific type of clotting observed appears to be displaying an unusual pattern which could imply a higher risk.

I've seen that in the newspapers, but the official regulatory authorities aren't claiming that it is so unusual that it couldn't happen to a small number of people among millions.

Not sure why everyone is going on about the EU - the EMA has said the vaccine is safe.

Some countries have said they don't think it's safe, some are EU member states, some aren't and some aren't in Europe.

Yes, that has always been their statement- to continue vaccinating whilst they complete their investigation. Specific countries have chosen to go against this guidance

No that is not quite accurate. The EMA had a meeting today about the safety of the AZ vaccine and confirmed it IS safe to use, and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

This is very important. The EMA continues to support the AZ vaccine.

It is an update to confirm their position is unchanged.

news.un.org/en/story/2021/03/1087362

[quote UtzAreBetterThanNuts]@Belladonna12

So you want sovereign countries to stop investigating a new vaccine over serious adverse side effects so it won't affect UK vaccination programme? [/quote]
I haven't said anything about it not being investigated. It is being investigated by many regulatory authorities including the EMA and the MHRA. None of these authorities have said it should be stopped while they are doing the investigation.

@poppycat10

I'm 100% sure it's just brexiteers that use that as another argument pro -brexit and anti-EU, even if it isn't.

@Belladonna12

Ok let me rephrase : So you want sovereign countries not to PAUSE vaccinating while investigating SERIOUS AND RARE side effects so it won't affect UK vaccination programme?

Not sure why everyone is going on about the EU - the EMA has said the vaccine is safe

No they haven't.

@QuentinInQuarantino

Those who say it is political...

Where I am (Spain) people are furious at the slow rollout and now this is making it even slower. I was due my AZ vaccine this week as a teacher and it's just been cancelled. I'm so cross with the Spanish govt. Politically speaking they're on a precipice with the opposition making gains in local elections, especially the right wing anti-lockdown people. Why would the Spanish govt piss their voters off to the point of losing power just to take a shot at Britain, especially considering its desperate for British tourists to be vaccinated so they can have the vaccine passports and come and spend this summer.

I am angry about the pause of the AZ, but I don't understand the "it's political" argument when it's more damaging for the home politics?

@QuentinInQuarantino the point is that the slow rollout would be happening anyway, but the "pause" means that they can wait for further stocks to be delivered and have sufficient doses ready to go, so that when they (eventually) give it the green light and lift the pause, the rollout will be magically swift and efficient because of having had this breathing room, and lo and behold they seem both competent and appropriately cautious, rather than getting all the blame that would have been rightfully theirs already without the pause due to how slowly things are moving. I don't think it's political due to taking a shot at Britain particularly, they are just using this as an opportunity to shift the blame. (I'm not a Brexiter though)

@ElizaDelphine

I'm never going to meet a brit in an open minded relaxed way anymore

@strudsespark Are you saying it's wrong to be closed minded about the entire EU plus Norway, Iceland etc (which I agree with) but fine to be closed minded about all British people? Xenophobia is xenophobia. You don't get to choose which countries it's ok to be xenophobic about.

No I'm not, but I'm scared and sad how a lot of brits/posters apparently view eu countries and their citizens, and when meeting up with brits it will be hard not to wonder if they hold these views aswell.

I was in bed after my shot!

The first day l ached everywhere, which paraceatamol wasn’t touching. I had terrible stomach pains and lots of nausea. But l was also exhausted. And not much better the second day.

So some people do get side effects bad enough to knock them over. Still glad l had it though!

[quote Itsalonghaul]Yes, that has always been their statement- to continue vaccinating whilst they complete their investigation. Specific countries have chosen to go against this guidance

No that is not quite accurate. The EMA had a meeting today about the safety of the AZ vaccine and confirmed it IS safe to use, and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

This is very important. The EMA continues to support the AZ vaccine.

It is an update to confirm their position is unchanged.

news.un.org/en/story/2021/03/1087362[/quote]
Ok that’s good

@annonnymous

I only cited the political agenda because it is governments that are suspending vaccinations, against the advice of their own scientists and medical bodies and the WHO. So its not science based, its perception based. Many EU countries are vaccine reluctant, the governments should have factored this in before taking an extreme step which will cost lives. Along with the lives already at risk because of the shambolic rollout. These actions will deter more people from getting any vaccine. I want the EU and the whole world to get vaccinated and try to find a way out of a dreadful situation and return to some normality. If we are lucky (due to our vaccination program) our third wave will be less damaging.

This is completely wrong. Here in Sweden the government does not have the power to suspend vaccinations. The decision was taken by the Swedish medicines regulator and the health authority. It was scientists who made the decision not politicians.

@FullofCurryandparatha

Not sure why everyone is going on about the EU - the EMA has said the vaccine is safe

No they haven't.

Does this go against pp re no change in position?

@FullofCurryandparatha

Not sure why everyone is going on about the EU - the EMA has said the vaccine is safe

No they haven't.

www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca

Well it's authorised for use....unless you are inferring that they'd authorise it for use even if it wasn't safe?

No, I'm saying you should understand the difference between "this is categorically safe" and " we have no reason to think it is unsafe at this present time".

@QuentinInQuarantino spain has also said that they're going to wait for 2 weeks, despite the EMA will give their opinion on Thursday (which seems it'll be a green light anyway) . so hoping they change a bit their mind and you get your vaccine soon...
im worried as I want to go and see my family and whilst before I thought they'd be vaccinated, now they might not... just worried about the restrictions the uk might put in other countries if they dont speed up in the vaccination programme

ps. what happens related with the elections... is a shitshow!
ps2. zorte on! (good luck)

The FDA have yet to authorise Astra Zeneca for use in the US.

The EU's European Medicines Agency has authorised it and spoken in support of it.

Loads of non-EU countries have either not authorised it. Or have paused it's rollout.

It's a stretch to make this an "EU" issue, surely?

(HRTWT)