To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

Of course YABU. Governments need to take precautions. The vaccines were rolled out at breakneck speed. If there is a pattern of ill side effects after a particular vaccine of course it should be investigated, even if it’s just a tiny chance that something is amiss. That’s how medicine works. That’s how every product works. What don’t you get?

I just posted that article further up too AuldAlliance. It's a good article

Finland have just announced they will follow EMA recommendations and not put the vaccine on pause.

@ElizaDelphine

It's best to meet any nationality with an open mind strudsespark. Never good to be closed minded about an entire nation of people

I sincerely hope this is irony. Since a large number of posters on this thread is not only firmly closeminded about a nation, but the entire EU plus Norway, Iceland etc. .

Some people just REALLY don't understand statistics - the number of pepole on this thread saying 'people have died after taking the vaccine' who seem wilfully blind to the fact that statistically a number of people would have died anyway from blood clots in those 3 days (or whatever) whether they had the vaccine or not... It's so frustrating. Correlation does not mean causation.

It's quite funny how this thread about EU is so popular and people are so 'concerned' about EU countries and its citizens and at the same time no one is really commenting on the awful Police and Crime Bill that bans the right to peaceful protest and essentially makes UK a totalitarian state. Look at your own neighbourhood first because your facing much bigger problems than EU.

If the Pfizer vaccine was being treated the same way I’d say ‘fair enough’ but its not. It does look politically motivated and odd to halt using it and at the same time demand to have more. Its a political football and people will suffer for it. I think they are trying to discredit the UK vaccine rollout. Btw - I’m a Remainer so normally pro EU.

auld The millions of AZ vaccines that are already in each EU country do have a use by date, therefore France is depriving its citizens of a valuable life saving vaccine (or other people that would love to have it in other countries) so please pass the vaccines on rather than throw them away. Vaccines as you know due to the limits on production are extremely precious and should NEVER ever be wasted!

France will need a third lockdown, and may now not reopen for any kind of summer due to infection and death rate, I am not sure I would be relaxed about the numbers looking at them - nor the economic fall out that will come afterwards.

I don't mind, my AZ vaccine is booked for next week and we are getting back to normal here, travelling long haul is planned for the summer, but it is not great for France and others to be so far behind with the rollout, the EU is also putting the whole global vaccine programme at risk from serious and damaging mutations as well.

[quote Xenia]The English courts are very much in favour as is most of the UK

www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/cop-says-vulnerable-man-should-have-covid-vaccine-despite-fathers-objection/5107798.article?utm_source=gazette_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SRA%27s+%c2%a365k+costs+for+failed+prosecution+%7c+Crumbling+courts+%7c+Historical+slavery_03%2f16%2f2021[/quote]
Reminds me of the cases where parents do not want medical interventions, or different medical interventions, when their child is ill in hospital.

It not about politics. It's about healthy people dying after having the vaccine. I'm pleased my country have suspended using it pending further investigation. Ignoring the deaths and ploughing on regardless is reckless

You do realise that the amount of people dying from blood clots is less than if they hadn’t had the vaccine so could be argued it has saved lives of those that would have normally died of blood clots.

Compared with a lot of Europe now facing a 3rd wave and the many thousands of people who will die of Covid because they or someone who has infected them or infected that person etc didn’t get their vaccine I think this is all a red herring and someone somewhere has blood on their hands.

When people realise what is going on then I can see massive riots and law suits for withholding the vaccine and causing many unnecessary deaths and illnesses

@UtzAreBetterThanNuts

It's quite funny how this thread about EU is so popular and people are so 'concerned' about EU countries and its citizens and at the same time no one is really commenting on the awful Police and Crime Bill that bans the right to peaceful protest and essentially makes UK a totalitarian state. Look at your own neighbourhood first because your facing much bigger problems than EU.

A lot of people can deal with more than 1 problem at a time.

@Cam77

Of course YABU. Governments need to take precautions. The vaccines were rolled out at breakneck speed. If there is a pattern of ill side effects after a particular vaccine of course it should be investigated, even if it’s just a tiny chance that something is amiss. That’s how medicine works. That’s how every product works. What don’t you get?

It isn't how it normally works. They only pause use of the medicine if the evidence shows that the risks might outweigh the benefits. That hasn't happened in this case. The EMA has said to continue but they have been ignored by some countries.

At any rate, the owners of Pfizer must be gleefully rubbing their hands given that so many EU citizens will now refuse the AZ, and the Pfizer costs IIRC £15 a pop, as opposed to £3 for the not-for-profit AZ.

I am feeling really bad for the Europeans now, it is not their fault that their governments can't even follow the science. The people will die because of this stupidity not the government officials whom will no doubt have enjoyed the benefit of an early vaccine - due to their critical worker status - it is so arrogant to assume they know more about this than the scientists!

I can only thank the British people for not buying into BS.

I'm never going to meet a brit in an open minded relaxed way anymore

@strudsespark Are you saying it's wrong to be closed minded about the entire EU plus Norway, Iceland etc (which I agree with) but fine to be closed minded about all British people? Xenophobia is xenophobia. You don't get to choose which countries it's ok to be xenophobic about.

@notalwaysalondoner

Some people just REALLY don't understand statistics - the number of pepole on this thread saying 'people have died after taking the vaccine' who seem wilfully blind to the fact that statistically a number of people would have died anyway from blood clots in those 3 days (or whatever) whether they had the vaccine or not... It's so frustrating. Correlation does not mean causation.

I know. Plus the same people seem quite happy to discount the inevitable deaths due to people not having the vaccine, or even if it is delayed, even though this will dwarf the 'had the vaccine and then had a blood clot and died, which may or may not be related' deaths many times over.

People should spend a little time on the spurious correlations website and maybe learn something.

Such as how the per capita cheese consumption in the US correlates with the number of people who died after becoming tangled in their bedsheets.

So while it is (hopefully) obvious that these two statistics are entirely unrelated, it does illustrate that sadly, hundreds of people die each year in bedsheet related mishaps, but I've never heard of anyone calling for bedsheets to be banned 'because you can't be too careful'.

Brexiters having a pop at the EU when the EMA is agreeing with them, whilst simultaneously having a pop at EU countries for using their sovereignty which they claim EU member states don't have.

It's funny that we never query the manufacturer of any other vaccine when we're given it, nor who made the medicines we've been prescribed. Yet most medicines and vaccines also have several different manufacturers. We just take what the pharmacist gives us.
Why do people think they can demand one Covid vaccine over another?

[quote mumsneedwine]@Gwenhwyfar before you get the vaccine you are handed a price of osier with all the risks v clearly on it. Just like with any other drug. Have it or don't. But there are risks to all drugs. [/quote]
Being given the paper two minutes before having the vaccine is not really the same, is it? Plus, there are few options to get out of the vaccine at the moment so the pressure on us to get it is very high.
There are alternatives to the Pill. It's not something everyone is being told to take. Not really comparable.

@lightand

But it's not UK's problem, is it? Unless the right to go to Marbella in summer is much more pressing than the right to protest. You've got your priorities wrong. Soon you won't be able to say anything about the vaccine even if there will be adverse side effects. Remember that this SPECIFIC adverse reaction happened in the very young people and as far as I'm aware they haven't be vaccinated in UK yet.

EMA EU's own medical regulator still supports the use of AZ vaccine just updated:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56411561

There is no way on earth they would do so if they had any doubts whatsoever. This a complete farce.

[quote BuggerBognor]@Gwenhwyfar he had a temp of >41, rigors, delirium, profuse sweating (changed bed 3 times, now need new mattress) and at one point appeared to have a convulsion. I was on the phone to 111 at the time, so can’t be sure. (They said it was prob Covid - we did 2 lateral flows, it wasn’t). I’d also never seen proper delirium before - he was shouting absolute bollocks and flailing about.

All of this happened in front of my 4 yo autistic son, who hadn’t slept in his own bed since.

To be fair, most of his colleagues had milder reactions although there was one very similar . It was speculated that they may both have had Covid without knowing. Most people felt rough as a badgers arse for 24 to 48 hours - they are all young and healthy hcp’s. All reported via yellow card.

It was really scary.[/quote]
There was a thread about the side effects recently. A workplace where many people were so ill they had to stay in bed for a few days. Some people, especially younger ones, do seem to be getting pretty bad side effects, worse than many younger people's experiences of Covid.
I live alone so if I get delirious I presume it could be very dangerous.
I'm not saying I wouldn't have the vaccine because of this, but it is a worry.

www.politico.eu/article/politics-threatens-cloud-eu-countries-pause-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-coronavirus/

I have commented on the Police and Crime Bill thread yesterday, I think it was@UtzAreBetterThanNuts

The millions of AZ vaccines that are already in each EU country do have a use by date, therefore France is depriving its citizens of a valuable life saving vaccine (or other people that would love to have it in other countries) so please pass the vaccines on rather than throw them away. Vaccines as you know due to the limits on production are extremely precious and should NEVER ever be wasted!

According to the latest data France has received a total of just over 10.8 million individual doses of vaccines since supplies started to arrive in country...that's all brands..

It has administered a total of 7.4 million of those into arms..(i.e. the sum of first and second doses)

Under 1.4 million of the 7.4 million administered was AZ, the bulk has been Pfizer.

Injection rate before the halt of use of AZ product only was over 200k a day...

Given the above assuming (I know) the use of AZ starts up again shortly I'm not sure any AZ doses are going to end up being thrown away because of expiry dates, as Auld as said it's to the contrary there's still the ongoing problem of getting supply of any brand quickly enough.

covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/