To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

@SakuraEdenSwan1

I think Boris is incompetent, other non EU county's have also suspended its use because of the clotting issues, the fact we are still using it is nothing more than using cannon fodder public as a bait against the EU. Blood clots are killers, the vaccine should of been stopped until proven it's safe, we have not done that.

It is not To do with Boris. JCVI, WHO, MHRA and the European Medicines Agency have not recommended pausing and do not have concerns. That’s good enough for me! If that changes then yes we should reconsider. Let’s not forget that covid causes clots, we’ve just come through a wave with a ridiculous death toll. I’ve also done long plane journeys and taken the pill amongst other things and have seen clots and serious consequences from both of them.

I agree that it makes sense to check for any possible link. Whether the vaccine rollout needed to be paused while they did that, I'm not sure based on the very small numbers. But I don't profess to be an expert in these things - I don't know the protocols.

I've skimmed this thread and amidst the raging about the EU vs the UK - has anyone actually answered the question about why only AZ is being halted for investigation? If Pfizer have similar number of incidences - which they apparently do - how can those countries possibly justify allowing that to continue but AZ to stop?

Genuinely interested in an answer if anyone has one?

[quote Poppydex]@Lorieandrews I'm the same as you! Have had dvt, pe and stroke. On blood thinners for life. I had the AZ vaccine 2 weeks ago tomorrow and as far as clots are concerned I am fine so far.

How long after having the vaccine did these people have the clots?[/quote]
The Danish health service, at least, isn't asking anyone who had the jab two weeks or earlier ago to be wary of symptoms. All the incidents occurred within a few days of the vaccine. So I think you can relax and enjoy your increasing protection from this twat of a virus :)

@SakuraEdenSwan1

I think Boris is incompetent, other non EU county's have also suspended its use because of the clotting issues, the fact we are still using it is nothing more than using cannon fodder public as a bait against the EU. Blood clots are killers, the vaccine should of been stopped until proven it's safe, we have not done that.

Covid is also a bit of a killer- at a far higher rate than the supposed risk of blood clots. How many more people will contract Covid waiting for their vaccines?

@Magnificentmug12

They are only making a deal about the AZ vaccine (even though the Pfizer vaccine has the same amount of people having blood clots which is a standard normal amount) is being picked up and swung around by the EU and tarred because of the link with us.

If this wasn’t the case then why is it not a concern to the EU that the Pfizer vaccine has caused the same amount?

This is what I can't understand.

Take out the British v. EU sentiment, it still doesn't make sense. BOTH vaccines have adverse effects, BOTH have had similar blood clot figures post vaccines. EMA, WHO, all (inc. EU) scientists stating that they are all safe and efficacious, why, still, the focus on trashing AZ?

The EU now has millions of AZ vaccines in stock, whilst still harping on about supply, which aren't being used, and are going out of date. Italy stopped an export of AZ, but still hasn't got mass vaccination rolled out to use them. Pfizer mush be rubbing their hands in glee, I am assuming they are making a profit unlike AZ.

@Magnificentmug12

It doesn’t matter how many articles are printed with the vaccine being safe now.

It’s been trashed and people are pulling out from having it. The EU should be held accountable for the fake news they have started and impacted peoples lives.

Did the EU start it? I thought it was Denmark.

@ExhaustedFlamingo

I agree that it makes sense to check for any possible link. Whether the vaccine rollout needed to be paused while they did that, I'm not sure based on the very small numbers. But I don't profess to be an expert in these things - I don't know the protocols.

I've skimmed this thread and amidst the raging about the EU vs the UK - has anyone actually answered the question about why only AZ is being halted for investigation? If Pfizer have similar number of incidences - which they apparently do - how can those countries possibly justify allowing that to continue but AZ to stop?

Genuinely interested in an answer if anyone has one?

It's because the nature of the illness that killed the lady in Denmark, and some of the other cases, have been far more severe than just 'clotting' - severe hemorraghing and basically "unusually severe."

Just patients dying of blood clots wouldn't have triggered the response.

This has been fairly wisely covered here in Denmark, but I appreciate it may not be the desired focus for other countries' media.

They STILL don't think it was the vaccine though - they're just following their procedures!

To be fair, it seems to be "some European countries" not "the EU." It's the individual countries' internal regulators, not an EU body, that is to blame, and two of the countries (Norway and Iceland) are not in the EU.

Whatever the motivation, it's terribly stupid behavior and will cost lives and jobs.

The English courts are very much in favour as is most of the UK

www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/cop-says-vulnerable-man-should-have-covid-vaccine-despite-fathers-objection/5107798.article?utm_source=gazette_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SRA%27s+%c2%a365k+costs+for+failed+prosecution+%7c+Crumbling+courts+%7c+Historical+slavery_03%2f16%2f2021

@jaypreen,

Both the European Medicines Agency and The W.H.O continues to state - categorically - that the vaccine is safe? So what's the point of the EMA then?

Well, the PRAC are meeting to assess the data on the issues raised in relation to AZ. This very week. So I guess that is one point of the EMA.

Has it occurred to anyone that the UK has the worst death toll in Europe, that the pandemic has been managed so badly here (eat out to help out, anyone?), that our leadership has completely discredited itself, that our politicians are seen as complete idiots in Europe, and maybe that's why the people and politicians don't trust a vaccine developed here?

Bollocks. It's not the UK government that's developed this vaccine. It's debatable as to whether the UK has had a worse pandemic than many other EU countries. We did poorly, but there is a lot of inconsistencies about how COVID deaths are defined and reported; most likely, the UK is in the middle of the EU pack (which is still really poor, I'll grant you).

With the level of nationalism, vitriol and superiority sprouted on these and brexit threads, I'm never going to meet a brit in an open minded relaxed way anymore 🥲.

I haven't read the thread. I agree they are being twats (and I'm from one of the countries implicated).

I don't think it's got much to do with the UK/Brexit though. AZ supply issues have caused a lot of problems for us here in Ireland. The powers that be have seized an opportunity to take the heat off them and posture about safety concerns as a distraction from their own woeful performance (not limited to vaccines).

It's a fucking risky move though as this is grist to the mill of the anti-vaxxers and will negatively affect uptake when they deign to roll it out again. Fucking idiots.

I just worry for the people in some of the countries with really low rates of vaccinations, they can’t have done all of even the most vulnerable. They’re on the way to a third wave by the sounds of it too. Thousands dying every day is shocking whether it be in France or in the UK. There’s no pleasure in knowing somebody else’s government have screwed up like ours did, it’s just us normal people who bear the brunt of it

@FullofCurryandparatha yes you can from some but you haven't been any better in your replies
People in glass houses really should 't throe stones

he EU should be held accountable for the fake news they have started and impacted peoples lives

The EU started nothing and there has been no fake news.
Reactions were reported that needed to be investigated. That's all. If people are so stupid that they don't understand that this is a good thing and promotes confidence in vaccine safety, that is not the fault of the EU.

Whatever the motivation, it's terribly stupid behavior and will cost lives and jobs.
Random people on MN know better than scientists in regulatory bodies from many countries who have decided to pause the AZ vaccination programme while some signals of very serious events are being investigated. If it is proven that there is no link to the serious events and the AZ vaccine, the will resume and in the mean time they continue to vaccinate their populations with the other available and authorised vaccines. It is standard process for any new medicine or vaccination.

@NewLevelsOfTiredness

Aaaah thank you. That makes sense. I read a few articles that just repeated the same basic info and then I gave up. Those details weren't included and they do fill in the missing gaps.

I'm not really one for conspiracy theories. While I'm certain there is some anti-UK feeling in some European countries, I don't think they'd prioritise that over reducing the number of COVID cases in their own nation. That whole suggestion seemed a bit bonkers.

I doubt the AZ vaccine poses any significant threat and I do worry what damage this will do to take-up rates. Lots of people will read the headlines but won't believe any subsequent reassurances that it's safe. I've seen quite a few people on my Facebook timeline saying they won't have the AZ jab now. Hilarious really because originally everyone wanted the "British" vaccine and not Pfizer!

But still, investigating is absolutely the right thing to do. Hopefully the AZ vaccine will get the green light to restart in all countries very soon.

I had my AZ vaccine back at the start of Feb. I'm happy to have my second vaccine as soon as it becomes available.

Tbh other than if it puts people of here , I don't care about I what other countries do ( not in a bad way ) its their choice and their citizens can hold them to account or not as the case may be.
Just leave them to it and its likely they will re commence or if not again its still their choice and lots of people around the world need the vaccine , so Im sure it won't go to waste

Random people on MN know better than scientists in regulatory bodies from many countries

The WHO and the EMA don't agree with these scientists btw.

This is not going to improve confidence or be seen as a good thing, as Macron showed with his attempts at backpedaling on AZ. Once you put the seed of doubts in, it is much more difficult to remove them.

Utterly crazy.

The saddest part about it is that there have been about the same number of blood clots after the Pfizer jab too, but no-one mentions that. In both cases, it's a tiny figure and no more than we should expect without the vaccines. But that's politics for you.

It is just awful isn't it? The EMA, the pharmacovigilance Committee of a regulatory agency investigating data on adverse effects. They might even change their opinion if the facts change. What a liberty? Or make a decision that the benefits outweigh the risks. Bast*rds.

And some EU countries having the autonomy to pause vaccine programmes in their own country. Who do they think they are, sovereign states? Again, shouldn't be allowed.

The reason given by the danish health authority is that there was 2 cases of rare blood clotting diseases that occurred unusually close together in time, and it is probably coincidence, but both patients had had the az vaccine in the previous few days. The stress being on the close time proximity between these usually rare combination of diseases.