To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

Why would the person giving you the vaccine be in on a government conspiracy theory. A lot of people are giving the vaccines. Do you think they're all in on it and somehow keeping it a secret from everyone else?

I don't think its a government conspiracy. Just that they may know there is a greater risk, but have weighed it up against mass vaccination. The benefit outweighs the risk so to speak.

I hope there isn't a link as all my family and friends have all had the AZ vaccine. It just, in hindsight, seemed an odd comment to make.

Also az accounts for a small fraction (less than 10%) of all the vaccines bought so it won’t make a large difference in 3 months’ time, at least here (ie where the health authority is accountable to).

It is all a jolly distraction from the brexit chaos anyway!

Says the mumsnetter who is also here on a tuesday morning

Who knows better than to question armies of scientists whose job it literally is to know these things.

I just don't see that playing out in the UK Nortrub, which was my point. We don't have a groundswell of voters who would like to grind vaccinations to a halt over any of this. (Beyond the usual anti-vaxxers)

Countries have paused the AZ vaccination for a few days while the issue is looked into independently. The issue is 4 people in Norway presented with very unusual symptoms after taking the AZ vaccine. These people are young and these are highly unusual reactions. The batch of vaccinations are all over Europe. Reactions seen to the Pfizer vaccine have been far more typical reactions. Therefore countries have paused the AZ vaccination for a few days while this is looked into. This is prudent and sensible.
All vaccinations have not stopped in these countries, just AZ and when/if as we expect AZ is proven to be safe they will resume the vaccination with AZ and catch up. It is not expected to impact the vaccine rollout at all.
In Ireland for example AZ has delayed delivery on a number of occasions and this actually has a greater impact on vaccine rollout there.

As much as the UK media wants to make this out as an anti British attitude by the EU this is simply not the case. These decisions have been made by individual countries. They are not going to pause a vaccine rollout during a global pandemic to spite the Uk or AZ (which is half Swedish). These cases are in Norway which is not even in the EU. Also the EU rollout is not so heavily reliant on the AZ vaccine as the UK so it does not have the same impact as it would have in the UK which is heavily AZ based.

I think the UK media are trying to stir up controversy where really there is none. This is a very short pause on one of the vaccinations while more information is gathered. It is not anti Britain or anti AZ , it is not political, it is just sensible.

@FullofCurryandparatha

I don't think they're trying to get the UK specifically but the motivation is certainly political rather than anything to do with science

What political motivation do you imagine that might be then? You say you're certain so can you please tell us all exactly why?

I'm certain because they are ignoring the drug regulators whose job it is to decide whether the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. They don't ignore them in the case of other drugs and the fact they are doing so in this case would suggest their reasons are not actually to do with safety and it is more about appearances.

@FullofCurryandparatha

Says the mumsnetter who is also here on a tuesday morning

Who knows better than to question armies of scientists whose job it literally is to know these things.

Ah ok. So you know better and are very intelligent but everyone else here on a tuesday morning is thick as shit. Got ya! What about the scientists who say the suspension is the wrong move?

Idiot mnetters - following the lead of the EMA, the MHRA and the WHO - posting on a Tuesday morning, no less... outrageous

Ah ok. So you know better and are very intelligent but everyone else here on a tuesday morning is thick as shit. Got ya!

Given you still don't get it, we can see what category you are in. Do you need smaller words?
EXPERTS GOOD: WE LISTEN
NON_EXPERT-INTERNET RANDOMS: NOT GOOD: WE NO LISTEN.

Better?

@FourTeaFallOut

I just don't see that playing out in the UK Nortrub, which was my point. We don't have a groundswell of voters who would like to grind vaccinations to a halt over any of this. (Beyond the usual anti-vaxxers)

Err THAT was MY point!

The UK has been able to portray the whole thing as EU vs UK, so the media and public have largely ignored what's going on over the channel.

You're only looking at the situation from within this context, so you don't see how it would have played out in the absence of Brexit tensions.

Think about GMO's though - same thing. The science is absolutely 100% categorical that they are safe, and yet politically they're unacceptable because voters fear them.

Or remember the MMR thing - how quickly THAT filled the UK press despite being a crock of horse-sh*t. Why not the same now?? Brexit!

A probably irrational fear has spread across the EU about the AZ vaccine, Brexit is the only reason that fear stopped at the channel.

Perhaps this is the first good thing to come out of Brexit lol.

@coronabeer

"Clever scientists" - like the EMA - have recommended that the AZ covid vaccine is safe.

No they haven't, they said the benefits out weigh the risks.

Countries have paused the AZ vaccination for a few days while the issue is looked into independently. The issue is 4 people in Norway presented with very unusual symptoms after taking the AZ vaccine. These people are young and these are highly unusual reactions. The batch of vaccinations are all over Europe. Reactions seen to the Pfizer vaccine have been far more typical reactions. Therefore countries have paused the AZ vaccination for a few days while this is looked into. This is prudent and sensible.

Yep. I was angry until I just read the details of this. It's not about the number of clotting incidents, it's about the unusual type. People have presented with a strange type of blood clotting incident post-vaccination, which is normally very rare. So I'm prepared to accept that yes, it's reasonable for that to be investigated, rather than just play a numbers game and ignore it.

@FullofCurryandparatha

Ah ok. So you know better and are very intelligent but everyone else here on a tuesday morning is thick as shit. Got ya!

Given you still don't get it, we can see what category you are in. Do you need smaller words?
EXPERTS GOOD: WE LISTEN
NON_EXPERT-INTERNET RANDOMS: NOT GOOD: WE NO LISTEN.

Better?

Yeah thanks for simplifying. I couldn't comprehend since apparently being on MN on a morning means I am unemployed and thick.

@FullofCurryandparatha

Ah ok. So you know better and are very intelligent but everyone else here on a tuesday morning is thick as shit. Got ya!

Given you still don't get it, we can see what category you are in. Do you need smaller words?
EXPERTS GOOD: WE LISTEN
NON_EXPERT-INTERNET RANDOMS: NOT GOOD: WE NO LISTEN.

Better?

Also like how you left off the second part of my comment when quoting me. Depends what experts you are listening to, doesn't it.

@Allmyarseandpeggymartin

Yep I am raging over it. It will stop people everywhere from taking up the AZ and it will cost lives. I was a remainer but considering how badly the EU has behaved and the messages from the individual government they can fuck off the lot of them

It's perfectly reasonable to investigate deaths if those deaths are related to/as a result of a vaccine.

The stuff about the EU behaving badly: Please clarify. The UK govt has behaved like utter idiots. Promising shit they couldn't do, and insisting it's all the EU's fault that the UK *isn't in some glorious sunny uplands? Utter stupidity. The Leave campaign lied at every opportunity, blamed problems caused by the UK govt's policy on the EU, and still it's all somehow the EU's fault?

I'm watching Canteloup (satire) on TF1 most evenings. If you could see that, you'd understand how many French feel about some things.

Thank you Evanna13, totally agree. But it seems you are in the minority here

@FullofCurryandparatha clever scientists have also said its ok such as ema, who etc
Why do you feel the need to be so insulting and defensive

Idiots on Mumsnet who aren't gainfully employed on a tuesday morning think otherwise.

To be fair I'm an epidemiologist who may occasionally look at mn on a tuesday morning We're all wfh and do crazy hours anyway

Of course it matters to the UK, any undermining of a vaccine impacts all countries using that vaccine. Anyone my age will remember the MMR and those refusing or paying for individual jabs. It is much more difficult to change a persons view once a strong opinion is formed. Worse still it may undermine all vaccines reliant on the same science- the cheap ones needed for a worldwide approach.

The thing is that all those countries who have paused Astra zeneca are perfectly entitled to do so? This is not an unusual thing. It happens with other vaccines too.

It was authorised by the European Medicines Agency, and they will be looking into it. They may have to look at the data and the correlations. Maybe it is a batch problem, so not a widespread thing. They may decide that the benefits outweigh the risks.

The review is being carried out by EMA's Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee (PRAC), the Committee responsible for the evaluation of safety issues for human medicines. Once the review is completed, PRAC will make any recommendations necessary to minimise risks and protect patients' health.

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/emas-safety-committee-continues-investigation-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-thromboembolic-events

We know Jo random on twitter or a blog has fierce opinions. However, I don't think I want them deciding if something like a vaccine is safe for use or not.

All the more for us, their reaction doesn't worry me at all.

It does make you go hmmmm at how vocal those countries have been about halting their use of AZ.