To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

@Inthevirtualwaitingroom

no they are not glad we have fucked off, they feel offended

I really think the average voter is a lot less interested in us than you think. We are just not that important to most people in Europe.

@Swordfish1

Personally I think there may be something in it and unfortunately I think our government is well aware.

Before this whole Astra Zeneca issue hit the media and europe started halting vaccinations with it, I had the Pfiser vaccine. I was called in alot earlier than my age group. I have a history of blood clots, its my only medical issue.

I was casually told, when asked, I would be having Pfiser because this one would be better for me, given my medical history.
I didn't think anything of it, until it all hit in the media recently.

So I do actually think our government perhaps knows there is a link, but are ignoring it, as maybe the few deaths which might be caused by blood clots would be less than those caused by the Covid?
Or it was just a massive coincidence that she said that.

Given that Pfizer have reported a similar number of clotting incidences I don’t think there’s much in your theory as you’ve described here to be honest.

@FatCatThinCat

It not about politics. It's about healthy people dying after having the vaccine. I'm pleased my country have suspended using it pending further investigation. Ignoring the deaths and ploughing on regardless is reckless.

Having a covid vaccine does not guarantee you will never ever die of a bloodclot, or a heart attack on the way to the vaccine centre.

 What we do know is that if you catch covid  you will be at much higher risk of bloodclot problems   and some of them will be fatal  or lifechanging.

If you're so batshit crazy that you think most of the EU is refusing to use vaccines just to get at the UK, there really is no point in anyone talking to you.
Put down the Daily Mail and give yourself a good hard slap.

@Swordfish1

Personally I think there may be something in it and unfortunately I think our government is well aware.

Before this whole Astra Zeneca issue hit the media and europe started halting vaccinations with it, I had the Pfiser vaccine. I was called in alot earlier than my age group. I have a history of blood clots, its my only medical issue.

I was casually told, when asked, I would be having Pfiser because this one would be better for me, given my medical history.
I didn't think anything of it, until it all hit in the media recently.

So I do actually think our government perhaps knows there is a link, but are ignoring it, as maybe the few deaths which might be caused by blood clots would be less than those caused by the Covid?
Or it was just a massive coincidence that she said that.

Why would the person giving you the vaccine be in on a government conspiracy theory. A lot of people are giving the vaccines. Do you think they're all in on it and somehow keeping it a secret from everyone else?

@FullofCurryandparatha

If you're so batshit crazy that you think most of the EU is refusing to use vaccines just to get at the UK, there really is no point in anyone talking to you. Put down the Daily Mail and give yourself a good hard slap.

I don't think they're trying to get the UK specifically but the motivation is certainly political rather than anything to do with science.

It's worrying for all of those on here who have friends / relatives within the EU, who are desperate to have the vaccine and are incredibly cross with the way their governments have handled this.

It is also very worrying for the UK to be so close to an entire continent of unvaccinated, very poorly people (which is a breeding ground for mutations of the virus) I hope they sort this out soon.

@FullofCurryandparatha

If you're so batshit crazy that you think most of the EU is refusing to use vaccines just to get at the UK, there really is no point in anyone talking to you. Put down the Daily Mail and give yourself a good hard slap.

Yes quite!

Wow, you are super angry FullofCurryandparatha.

Denmark I thought had 3 cases of people with unusual symptoms following the vaccine, not severe damage just an unusual presentation of blood clots.

Germany has had I think 6 cases of CVST, this is a different condition to the cases in Denmark. CVST generally occurs around 5 in every 1000000, so rare but not that rare in a country the size of Germany, rates are much higher in under 18s.

Given there seems to be no other reports of either of these side effects anywhere else, and there have been millions of doses given out across the UK and Europe it seems madness to suspend a vaccine based on such low numbers. Absolutely investigate, but even if these unusual symptoms in Denmark were as a result of the vaccine there is still a 1 in 6000000 chance, which is very low.

I don't think they're trying to get the UK specifically but the motivation is certainly political rather than anything to do with science

What political motivation do you imagine that might be then? You say you're certain so can you please tell us all exactly why?

@Gembie

There is no cause of death yet for that Italian teacher! So a manslaughter investigation is wildly premature and alarmist. Just another EU government diverting attention from their own mismanagement of the pandemic....

In Italy; so that will be the Italian government.

You seem to think that the elected government of all the countries in the EU are disreputable.

Did you view the British government as just another disreputable EU government until Brexit? And because of Brexit have they magically transformed into a collection of upright politicians with an abundance of integrity?

Wow, you are super angry FullofCurryandparatha

Am I? I don't feel angry. Is that another thing you've decided without any evidence of any kind.

Put it this way: clever scientists decide a suspension is necessary.
Idiots on Mumsnet who aren't gainfully employed on a tuesday morning think otherwise.
Who should we listen to? What a hard decision!!

I was casually told, when asked, I would be having Pfiser because this one would be better for me, given my medical history.

The Daily Mail, so they may have just made it up...

Pfizer's Covid vaccine is linked to MORE blood clots than AstraZeneca's in the UK

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9366963/Coronavirus-Pfizers-Covid-vaccine-linked-blood-clots-AstraZenecas-UK.html

I don't think any of the countries are doing this to "get" at the UK, why would they risk their citizen's lives? I think they may have overreacted- but we shall see in the coming days.

What still puzzles me is that there have been similar occurrences of PE, DVT etc. post Pfizer vaccine. Why is attention focused on AZ?

I believe the danish prime minister has said on telly that she’s annoyed by the decision and worried about the consequences. It’s a decision that’s taken entirely by the health authority and not for political gain.

Sad to say, but I think politically the vaccine debates (Az/Pfizer) are a godsend post brexit. The more your politicians can cultivate the 'us versus them' feeling, the less they are held accountable.

Historically what's the best way to get a nation to pull together? Start a war, so this is a mini-version of that. Threads like this and some media play into this head on. At the end of the day, what's it to you that the vaccine has been halted in EU? You are bloody lucky to have so many vaccinated already, and if you argue it scares people in uk, well then perhaps it is responsible to investigate irregularities as you would with ANY other vaccine.

(@NewLevelsOfTiredness i have a feeling you are repeating yourself a little bit .)

Am I? I don't feel angry. Is that another thing you've decided without any evidence of any kind

Ok pet. Just try not to pop a vein.

"Clever scientists" - like the EMA - have recommended that the AZ covid vaccine is safe.

While this is a serious topic, all the UK MNs believing the decisions of other countries concerning the AZ vaccine is about the UK in any way, shape or form is quite bizzare.

It's like the football "rivalry" between England and Germany, which was the focus of a lot of anxiety in England, and went largely unnoticed in Germany...

@FourTeaFallOut

because the UK politicians have been able to present it as an "anti-UK", they have evaded the political pressure to follow suit

Political pressure to pause a vaccine which doesn't magically fixed pulmonary embolisms as a side effect? - Where would this political pressure be coming from?

Where all political pressure comes from - the voters who largely DON'T weigh up things in a logical and analytical way before casting their next vote. Once a couple of nations started this pause, the others were bound to follow suit because they have nothing to lose politically by doing so and lots to lose if they don't.

They're not the right clever scientists today coronabeer, apparently.

@FullofCurryandparatha

Wow, you are super angry FullofCurryandparatha

Am I? I don't feel angry. Is that another thing you've decided without any evidence of any kind.

Put it this way: clever scientists decide a suspension is necessary.
Idiots on Mumsnet who aren't gainfully employed on a tuesday morning think otherwise.
Who should we listen to? What a hard decision!!

Says the mumsnetter who is also here on a tuesday morning.