To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

"look at the contraceptive Pill - but we still use that...."

Well, we are not all summoned to take the Pill without being told of the risk. It's a choice.

requitalissima

OP, you are behaving like a hysterical twat. Do you really believe EU governments give a shiny shit about playing politics with UK over the safety of their citizens?
Such utter cockwaddle is spouted only by fucking covert UKIP morons.
The self-importance of some in UK is fucking astounding.
It's NOT about you.
Arrgghhhh.“

I voted remain and would again tomorrow. This is being handled very badly certain EU nations, no idea why because data already available categorically allays any concerns about blood clots.

Our family in Heilbronn embraced the AZ vaccine and we’re so relieved they are protected.

Fully expecting the programme to resume very quickly. 🤞

@Gwenhwyfar before you get the vaccine you are handed a price of osier with all the risks v clearly on it. Just like with any other drug. Have it or don't. But there are risks to all drugs.

@Gwenhwyfar

"look at the contraceptive Pill - but we still use that...."

Well, we are not all summoned to take the Pill without being told of the risk. It's a choice.

Is anyone being summoned? Or is 'invited' actually the word? And then you are entitled to make a choice to have it or not.

Piece of paper. Juggling a dog on lap

Summoned? I see what you mean deliciouschilli People are invited.

Personally I think there may be something in it and unfortunately I think our government is well aware.

Before this whole Astra Zeneca issue hit the media and europe started halting vaccinations with it, I had the Pfiser vaccine. I was called in alot earlier than my age group. I have a history of blood clots, its my only medical issue.

I was casually told, when asked, I would be having Pfiser because this one would be better for me, given my medical history.
I didn't think anything of it, until it all hit in the media recently.

So I do actually think our government perhaps knows there is a link, but are ignoring it, as maybe the few deaths which might be caused by blood clots would be less than those caused by the Covid?
Or it was just a massive coincidence that she said that.

The EU have got the hump. They don’t want to have to rely on AZ. It’s irritated them beyond measure

@deliciouschilli

This thread seems to be bringing alot of Anti Vaxxers out, which is very concerning.

An anti-vaccination rhetoric doesn’t really seem to be in this thread at all. The discussion seems more about whether countries should continue administering vaccinations from one particular supplier.... and any political motivation for and against doing that. 🤷‍♀️

I think the UK will be fine and will people will make their own choices as it is voluntary. The few who refuse the vaccine in the UK are not all anti vaxxers by the way. I have had every vaccination going but would not have flu and probably won't have this one and I have never taken the contraceptive pill and don't really take any medicines - may be one head ache pill every 10 years (as I don't seem to get ill).

I probably won't have this one as I don't go out much but am happy others have it if they want. It is one reason UK vaccinations usually go so well - as we have choice about them.

BuggerBognor

Incidentally, not taking the (currently theoretical) risk of a link seriously could be a spectacular own goal for the “have what you’re given and be grateful” brigade.”

It’s not even theoretical. UK data after 11 million doses shows no higher (in fact slightly lower) incidence of blood clots in the AZ vaccinated. 🤯

@Sayamino

The EU have got the hump. They don’t want to have to rely on AZ. It’s irritated them beyond measure

What???

Oh for... I think this is the sixth time I've posted it just in this thread

Sorry, I stopped reading your posts after your first one.

@Acesulfame

Their whole handling of vaccination full stop has been shambolic. As much as it pains me to admit it, the government are doing an excellent job on the vaccination front - it’s actually saved Boris’ bacon given the total mess than was last year.

It's the ONLY thing they've done right throughout the pandemic, but it's a big thing.

@Sayamino

The EU have got the hump. They don’t want to have to rely on AZ. It’s irritated them beyond measure

Why don't they want to rely on the vaccine by the company that's half Swedish (in the EU) ? That sounds odd...

@Cornettoninja

Except the UK has done millions of this vaccine, and not seen any appreciable issues

@Bakeachocolatecake2day - I literally said that

DP had his AZ vaccine yesterday and I’ve already had mine. I’m not anti-AZ at all and not particularly concerned about the UK supply precisely because the same issue hasn’t been seen here despite millions of doses.

However, a small number of specific types of clots in a short timescale are absolutely worthy of further scrutiny by the EU to rule out any issues in the manufacturing, storage or delivery process. I can’t imagine any other scenario I would be questioning the suspension of a medication in the same circumstance.

Again the presentation by the media is what’s responsible for whipping up emotions imho. They could easily present this in a non-alarmist, informative manner but they chose not to.

I'm saying the opposite, I do not think the EU should be investigating as they don't have any kind of statistically significant sample. If you look at the numbers we have only had 40 cases in the UK, which is lower than the number you would expect to see in a normal population.

In the EU the cases have been in the single figures.

The sad fact is that if we'd all been using the Chinese or Russian vaccine, and various other country's regulators has suddenly raised concerns in this way, the UK would have been right in there alongside Germany and France because politically, you lose FAR fewer points for pausing a vaccination program even if it costs hundreds of lives, than you do for continuing with one that is subject to concern - no matter how trivial that concern may be.

However, because the UK politicians have been able to present it as an "anti-UK", they have evaded the political pressure to follow suit.

@BigBamboo

Oh for... I think this is the sixth time I've posted it just in this thread

Sorry, I stopped reading your posts after your first one.

Fair enough, that one was a calm and polite answering of some valid questions. If you felt the need to skip based on that, it does explain a lot :)

This thread is thick with individuals with very low cognitive ability. How fucking stupid can one get?
English exceptionalism at its worst.
Just because AZ is associated with UK/Oxford, any potential adverse reactions above what is deemed acceptable to individual countries and their respective health organisations and thus cause suspension in administrating said product, must mean that the fucking EU as whole is having a tantrum because they don't like UK.
Grow the fuck up and try to think.

Bakeachocolatecake2day

I'm saying the opposite, I do not think the EU should be investigating as they don't have any kind of statistically significant sample. If you look at the numbers we have only had 40 cases in the UK, which is lower than the number you would expect to see in a normal population.

In the EU the cases have been in the single figures.”

This thread is going round and round and round.

The data we already have in the UK shows no link. Some people just don’t want to hear that.

because the UK politicians have been able to present it as an "anti-UK", they have evaded the political pressure to follow suit

Political pressure to pause a vaccine which doesn't magically fixed pulmonary embolisms as a side effect? - Where would this political pressure be coming from?

Lots of people have an adverse reaction to the flu jab. One of my elderly neighbours was in the hospital for 4 months after one, nearly died and lost 5 stone in weight. I wouldn't be surprised if some people in the UK have had massive adverse reactions and it has been covered up so the nation doesn't panic over it. There will always be some people who have a reaction to vaccinations. I know a few DC who ended up in the hospital after the MMR jab.

Although I have commented here about the EU, I don't really care what they do TBH. I am only concerned about what is happening in my own country. That is purely from a weary point of view. One of my DGP's died of Covid in April and both my dad and brother have had it bad. Lockdown is wearing me down. I just don't have the mental space to care about Macron or anyone else who have an issue with the AZ vaxx.

If it means that the people in the UK get their jabs quicker due to excess supply then that is one benefit.

@Sayamino

The EU have got the hump. They don’t want to have to rely on AZ. It’s irritated them beyond measure

What rubbish, AZ is a 50/50 owned european/uk company with a french CEO.

People need to stop pouring out their hate of anything european/eu.

The best way fwd for europe and indeed the RoW is to vaccinate as many as possible but with a new vaccine that hasn't had the benefit of years of monitoring, a cautious approach is best.

"even if it is a direct result of AZ vaccine (and if so, it also would suggest its a side effect of Pfizer too as they have seen similar numbers) the benefits still outweigh the risks. Covid itself increases risk of blood clots by a higher factor, for example ... along with the many other unpleasant and dangerous risks to other organs and systems of the body. The longer it takes countries to carry out their mass vaccination program, the more people will become unwell and/or die of Covid itself. It doesn't seem like this balance has been properly assessed here when making the decision."

You'd have to balance the estimated risk of getting Covid, the risk of it developing a blood clot against the risk of the vaccine causing a blood clot. The decision for an individual might be different from that at a population level.