To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

'Your prime minister is an absolute incompetent disgrace who every other country is laughing at and your government are a clatter of out and out robbers and you should be ashamed of yourselves for voting for them.' (do we have a LOL emoji?)

@inthevirtualwaitingroom

The UK hasn't made it "us and them", I think the EU did that when they tried to block exports via Ireland/N. Ireland. The UK didn't reciprocate and responded calmly in the circumstances.

I was trying to find a bright side which is that if some EU countries don't want the AZ vaccine, that is their choice, and allows us to supply poorer countries that have less money available, and therefore fewer choices.

[quote NewLevelsOfTiredness]@RedToothBrush
The action is coming from individual governments (ie political) rather than regulators and health advisory bodies (ie science led). And anyone with any kind of doubt creeping in should keep an eye on this dynamic over and above what is said on the news and in the media - who is saying and doing what and why.

Bollocks. The decision in Denmark was 100% taken by the health authorities, NOT the government. The government don't control it. Please stop spreading this misinformation, and if you don't know the truth don't post your own speculation as if it is the truth.

If you have suspicions about individual countries then be specific.[/quote]
Thank God NewLevels is here to talk some sense.
The amount of unsubstantiated speculation on this thread is truly depressing.

Completely agree. Numbers are rapidly rising again in Germany and Italy with new lockdowns coming in/being called for by health services. German medics are furious at this decision. This is no time for political game playing. (Another remain voter)

@Inthevirtualwaitingroom

notice how they call it the British variant going through europe now, which is what caused our most recent lock down.

Yes, this British variant is laughable. Like the virus hit Kent and said, I like this place, let's do the mutation shuffle! Apparently the UK carries out 50%of the worlds testing for genetic mutations of the virus, so it's not surprising we discovered it here. The fact Kent has a major port called Dover, is a bit of a clue that the variant was brought here from somewhere, which of course is equally irrelevant.

It's the EU, what do you expect ?

This thread is hilarious.

We should have remained in the EU because that's where we could exert a disproportionate amount of power and influence.

We fucked ourselves over and trying to pretend it was all worth it because of the vaccines is pathetic.

I've just looked at the statistics, not sure if I calculated correctly but 1 in 1000 people die of blood clot in the UK so if 17 million people have had the vaccine and 40 people have died of blood clot which makes it a figure that is so so so so small that it is very unlikely that its related to the vaccine. Also, wasn't Pfizer a concern in Norway where 29 people died?

Imo, I think this is very dangerous to spread fear for countries who are potentially going through their 3rd wave. Just by looking at our Dec figures and yesterday's figures we can see how much the vaccine rollout has helped thanks to Az and lockdown.

Norway, Iceland and Switzerland are not in the EU. These decisions are made on a country by country basis.

That aside, I think it's important for the blood clotting incidents to be investigated, but based on the data, it is a mistake to suspend use of the vaccination in the meantime.

[quote Mintjulia]@inthevirtualwaitingroom

The UK hasn't made it "us and them", I think the EU did that when they tried to block exports via Ireland/N. Ireland. The UK didn't reciprocate and responded calmly in the circumstances.

I was trying to find a bright side which is that if some EU countries don't want the AZ vaccine, that is their choice, and allows us to supply poorer countries that have less money available, and therefore fewer choices.[/quote]
I agree that it would be great for Britain to assist poorer countries with the vaccine. However, there are already plenty of people who say their communities are reluctant to have the vaccine due to experimentation of vaccines on poor BAME populations abroad. So sadly I suspect that this will be misrepresented by some as further evidence of this...

The cynic in me has been stirred.

The EU wants the block to remain intact at all costs. It is not in their interests for the UK to be fully vaccinated and start economic recovery before anyone else. If we do, other countries in the EU will question their membership. This could be the start of the break up of the EU or at the very least the final straw for some already teetering memberships.

They aren’t questioning the Pfizer jab which has equal deaths. Why is that?

The EU have 2 options. The start of its breakup or at the very least internal tensions, or, throwing their own people under a bus to save the EU.

It’s not actually that far fetched.

Meanwhile, the MSM didn't splurge this all over the news.

"Doctors in Norway have been told to conduct more thorough evaluations of very frail elderly patients in line to receive the Pfizer BioNTec vaccine against covid-19, following the deaths of 23 patients shortly after receiving the vaccine."

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149

FatCatThinCat

Norway suspended use of it because they had multiple adverse reaction reports from their own vaccinators. They were getting reports back of blood clots, skin haemorrhages and brain haemorrhages in younger people. But yeah, they're utter fuckwits for pausing its use while they investigate.

By pausing it, there'll probably be more people die of covid by not being vaccinated sooner.

Actually, no. In Norway about one person a day is dying from Covid. So pausing it for a week or two will not lead to many deaths. The vaccination was paused in Norway as firstly a person died in Denmark, then shortly after someone in Norway died, and now three more people have been admitted with blood clots. I think it is unsurprising that they want to check it out before continuing vaccination. They haven't stopped the vaccine for good, it is just a short break to check it out.

Worknoplay

'Your prime minister is an absolute incompetent disgrace who every other country is laughing at and your government are a clatter of out and out robbers and you should be ashamed of yourselves for voting for them.'“

Certainly not what German member of the public was saying in BBC News last night. Many there are extremely angry snd concerned at the inefficient vaccines roll out and looking “with envy” at the success of the programme in the UK.

I don’t think most people in the UK associate it’s success with the PM anyway (who reportedly wanted to hand it to Serco and had to be persuaded by Valance and Whitty) it’s a success because of NHS logistics.

No one in the UK want to admit they are part of the biggest human trials there ever was, so it's easier to laugh at other countries than realise they are looking with interest at what is going on here...

@annonnymous

May I ask what British people are referring the variants discovered in Brazil and South Africa as?

Also this.

www.globaltimes.cn/page/202102/1214761.shtml

@annonnymous I suppose members of the South African and Brazilian MN equivalent are also very cross with the EU for calling those variants by the name of the country they were first discovered, because you know we call the British variant "British variant" because we hate the UK and not because that is where it was first discovered

Delighted to be part of a trial, very happy to admit it.
Tried to volunteer for the actual trials months ago but they were all over subscribed so we didn’t get on, mores the pity.

@zoemum2006

This thread is hilarious.

We should have remained in the EU because that's where we could exert a disproportionate amount of power and influence.

We fucked ourselves over and trying to pretend it was all worth it because of the vaccines is pathetic.

Come back in six months when all the UK's adult population has been offered both doses of the vaccine and things are pretty much back to normal. Compare that with other EU countries who havn't vaccinated anywhere near as many who are still suffering restrictions and stop/start lockdowns etc.

@FatCatThinCat

It not about politics. It's about healthy people dying after having the vaccine. I'm pleased my country have suspended using it pending further investigation. Ignoring the deaths and ploughing on regardless is reckless.

The statistics behind it show that the adverse reactions are no more than would be expected from a mass vacination programme, it happened with the polio vaccine in the '50s, it happens with the vacinations given to babies/young children. All medication carries a risk but the balance of positives for me and for others will not stop me having AZ2 next month.

I love the idea of covid finding Kent and deeming it the perfect place for a relaxing mutation! That has made me chuckle this morning.

I think we need to be really careful about blaming the EU and calling politics on this. I am a huge remoaner but I am also very glad to be in a country with the vaccine policies we have introduced here in Britain and would be much more stressed if I was in other European countries right now.

Our government and medical bodies have both been quite bold/brave and have had their decisions validated by the science even when made ahead of final results (12 weeks apart etc). Other countries bodies are still working on risk aversion at all costs. Normally, very valid but problematic right now in a pandemic and repeated lockdowns.

My patriarchal aversion alarm is beeping loudly though. No-one gives a shit about the very much higher risk of thrombosis from the contraceptive pill as they prescribe it to high amounts of women from teenage years up. Vaccines are not a female only medicine so are much more important is the underlying message.

Onesunnydayiniceland

We’re more specific about it in the UK and call it the Kent variant. I like people from Kent 😁

This is ridiculous. It’s clear that what you are upset about is the British ‘brand’ being hurt, whether because a variant has its name or a vaccination developed in Britain is receiving further scrutiny.

No-one is ganging up on Britain- that’s absurd.

@IkkeMig

This is ridiculous. It’s clear that what you are upset about is the British ‘brand’ being hurt, whether because a variant has its name or a vaccination developed in Britain is receiving further scrutiny.

No-one is ganging up on Britain- that’s absurd.

@annonnymous