Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

@bumbleymummy

We really should ramping up the capacity of the NHS anyway. It can barely cope most winters, never mind when there’s a pandemic.

Then gat vaccinated. Take your self off the list of people they may have to deal with!

Can you explain why I am putting them more at risk than the millions of children who aren’t vaccinated? (Many pregnant women have other children in schools) Can you explain why you think natural immunity after recovery isn’t as good as vaccine immunity?

If you don't known the answer to this they you are an idiot!

@TheKeatingFive

ROI have not paused the AZ vaccine for political reasons. It is a public health decision which I support. It is for a week. I am glad they are doing this, it makes me feel they are taking it seriously.

I'm sorry, but this is total rubbish. If it were for 'public health reasons' why haven't they also paused Pfizer, which has been responsible for more blood clotting events globally?

It absolutely was a political decision and a disgraceful one (speaking as an Irish person).

The efficacy for AZ and J&J are very similar (around 71%).

That's true only of mild disease. AZ is extremely efficacious in preventing moderate/severe disease - as good as Pfizer. That does not appear to be true of J&J.

The AZ vaccine has not been paused for political reasons. It is for public health.

Today the EMAwill meet and will look in detail at each of the four Norwegian cases. They will be looking to see if there were clots, how serious they were, and what type of clots they were. They will be asking if the rate of clotting is higher in those who have received an AstraZeneca vaccine than in the average population. They will also look at the data from AZ and will provide an independent review.

Prof McConkey said pausing the administration of AstraZeneca vaccines is the sign of a "cautious, well-run, prudent programme" and he thinks it is "reassuring" for people to see that we have a Government decision making system that is cautious and wants to see all the facts before proceeding.

I expect they will conclude that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risk and will recommence with the AZ vaccine later this week.

Personally I would be happy to take either of these vaccines.

The AstraZeneca vaccine has been found to be 76% effective against the original coronavirus after the first dose. When a second dose is given 12 weeks or more after the first dose, the efficacy rises to 82%.
Data released by Johnson & Johnson suggest that 1 dose of vaccine was 66% effective in preventing moderate to severe COVID-19 and 100% effective in preventing COVID-19–related hospitalization and death.

Once it has been tested and is safe, my children will be vaccinated against Covid.......

The AZ vaccine has not been paused for political reasons. It is for public health. Yes, we have all read the reports, and know the flaws in the J+J data - precisely the same as those in the early data for AZ and Pfizer! Now find us an answer to the Pfizer question:

Why haven't they also paused Pfizer, which has been responsible for more blood clotting events globally?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

STOP IT!

We had that discussion already. Unvaccinated kids are really not a Gotcha!

It is, as was patiently explained by many, a process. Kids may well be vaccinated, trials are ongoing. Natural immunity? Also trials ongoing. You are relying on things that are not known, which is weird!

Your persistence in not explaining your own thoughts and demanding others explain theirs is quite exhausting.

What is your REAL issue with the covid vaccines?

We know more about natural immunity than we do about immunity from the vaccines so far. So may you should ‘stop it’. Children aren’t going to be vaccinated in the near future before we have lifted restrictions so protesting that they aren’t relevant is ridiculous.

I have no issue with the covid vacube at all. I just don’t agree with compulsory/coerced vaccination particularly for a disease with avery low risk of complications for the majority of people. It’s a slippery slope.

On a slight aside, if the EU leaders are SO concerned about AZ and blood clots, despite all the scientific and medical reassurance and the facts, why have they not shown equal concern over the Pfizer jab and resultant anaphylactic reactions? How many of those have there been? Why do we have to stay put for 15 minutes after a Pfizer jab and not after an AZ? Conclusions need to be drawn about this sorry spectacle. Is there any reason other than political?
The poor people of Europe are not being served well by their political masters political servants.

@Wakeupin2022

Can you explain why I am putting them more at risk than the millions of children who aren’t vaccinated? (Many pregnant women have other children in schools) Can you explain why you think natural immunity after recovery isn’t as good as vaccine immunity?

If you don't known the answer to this they you are an idiot!

So you can’t explain it? I wouldn’t be so quick to call people names then.

@Belladonna12

ROI have not paused the AZ vaccine for political reasons. It is a public health decision which I support. It is for a week. I am glad they are doing this, it makes me feel they are taking it seriously.

Of course it's a political decision- they are doing it so people like you think they are taking it seriously .If it was a public health decision, it would be based on actual evidence that thrombosis cases are higher in those who have been vaccinated and those are not. As it's actually the other way round and the delay could mean more people die of Covid public health is clearly not the priority. Wake up and smell the coffee. You are being manipulated.

That is why the EMA are meeting today to discuss the actual evidence. They will look in detail at the four Norwegian cases and the data from AZ. They will make an independent decision. I am glad they are taking it seriously that they are being cautious and prudent. I expect they will resume AZ vaccines later this week. It is a short pause. 17 countries have now paused the AZ vaccine. I have researched this in detail and there is no way that I am being manipulated. We can agree to disagree.

Exactly @thenovice

If there are any concerns they need to be investigated properly and not brushed-off, absolutely.

But there are many inconsistencies here and double standards amongst the brands that don't seem to add up

Ah! The side step, equivocation!

Stage 2 clinical trials for under 16s are already underway. Many kids have had the vaccine due to other heath concerns, Pfizer always had data down to 12 years of age! So yes, near future may well be possible. Don't discount it.

Vaccines will never be compulsory here.

And what you view as coersion is a normal curiosity into the reasons why a perfectly healthy someone would not have the vaccine!

Today the EMAwill meet and will look in detail at each of the four Norwegian cases. They will be looking to see if there were clots, how serious they were, and what type of clots they were. They will be asking if the rate of clotting is higher in those who have received an AstraZeneca vaccine than in the average population. They will also look at the data from AZ and will provide an independent review.

Of course they will look at it. That's what they always do. However, they have also said that the benefits outweigh the risks (even if there is a risk) and that people should carry on having it. They don't say that if there is a real concern about a drug safety.

Prof McConkey said pausing the administration of AstraZeneca vaccines is the sign of a "cautious, well-run, prudent programme" and he thinks it is "reassuring" for people to see that we have a Government decision making system that is cautious and wants to see all the facts before proceeding.

In other words he thinks it is good that they have paused because that will reassure the suckers and they may be more likely to have the vaccine in future. It's entirely political and nothing to do with actual evidence.

I just got the Astra Zeneca vaccine this morning and I would encourage anyone to do the same. The incidence of getting blood clots that they have reported is actually smaller than what occurs normally in the general population. In other words, despite the alarming headlines you have less of a chance of getting a blood clot if you get the vaccine! So far, no side effects either. Considering one of the possible side effects of catching Covid is death, getting a vaccine is an easy choice to make.

Just up until January 7th, in USA alone:
4,400 adverse events reported in US after receiving Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine with 21 cases determined to be anaphylaxis, according to CDC.
And there have been 4 blood clots ion Norway from AZ.
I would have either of the vaccines rather than Covid any day of the week.

@bumbleymummy - children will have vaccines available this year. If a lot of people decide not to vaccinate then there will not be enough vaccinated for herd immunity, whereas if all adults get vaccinated there is herd immunity without even needing to vaccinate children. The difference between you and a child, is that you are making a conscious choice that the risk to others doesn't matter to you. You also don't seem to be aware that a proportion of young "healthy" people are still dealing with long covid fatigue, new onset diabetes, lung issues and other issues many months after their covid infections. Death is not the only risk to you, nor to those around you. You might find it illuminating to read a long covid thread and see what people are dealing with day to day.

That is why the EMA are meeting today to discuss the actual evidence. They will look in detail at the four Norwegian cases and the data from AZ. They will make an independent decision. I am glad they are taking it seriously that they are being cautious and prudent. I expect they will resume AZ vaccines later this week. It is a short pause. 17 countries have now paused the AZ vaccine. I have researched this in detail and there is no way that I am being manipulated. We can agree to disagree.

As I said above, of course they're going to look at the actual evidence. However, they have said in the meantime, people should continue to have it. They don't say that if there is a real concern. They suspend the drug licence while they look at it. The fact the actual regulatory bodies who are in charge of drug safety have not suspended it and that it is been done by individual governments demonstrates it is a political rather than public health decision. It's all about politicians making you think they are taking it seriously.

Is it this year @MRex?

That makes sense given the trial stage AZ was in at the end of last year!

@Silverandgoldsparkles

Can I ask what the gist of it was about obesity please?

If you're obese, you're likely to suffer from underlying conditions (diagnosed or as yet undiagnosed). High cholesterol, high BP, diabetes etc. Also, if you can think about it purely physically, when you're obese, you're probably not aerobically fit. So your little heart, still has to pump blood all around a larger body as it did when you were young and slim. Except it's the same little heart, so it's under increased strain. Then, you have the pressure the extra weight has on your lung capacity, plus the simple fact that your body weight is pressing on your lungs.
Add to that a presumption that your diet is probably unhealthy, therefore your immune system also.

Covid attacks the respiratory system first but when that is put under pressure, it feeds oxygen to the heart, so if heart not getting enough O2, then heart also put under pressure.

LAYMAN'S assessment of the 'gist'.

There is possibly even far more to it than that. There is growing evidence that Sars-Cov-2 uses adipocytes (fat cells) as a viral reservoir. It means obese patients tend to quickly develop a higher viral load. There is also a strong hypothesis that these same adipocytes cause a stronger inflammatory reaction to fight the virus and lead to significantly stronger likelihood of cytokine storm reaction. And lastly, it's also reasonably likely that due to the higher viral load, obese people may be more contagious.

There have been a number of studies into this and so far they are all reaching these conclusions.
www.rcpjournals.org/content/clinmedicine/20/4/e109

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Ah! The side step, equivocation!

Stage 2 clinical trials for under 16s are already underway. Many kids have had the vaccine due to other heath concerns, Pfizer always had data down to 12 years of age! So yes, near future may well be possible. Don't discount it.

Vaccines will never be compulsory here.

And what you view as coersion is a normal curiosity into the reasons why a perfectly healthy someone would not have the vaccine!

Because they’re perfectly healthy and at very low risk :)

No side step at all. Do you really think there will be mass vaccination of children before June? I don’t.

Again... June? Who said June?

Stop it! It's obvious!

And I think you've misnderstood a whole tranche of medical research results about children and covid!

Spot on @Evanna13

There was an interview on RTE last night with an Irish doctor working in Norway, he explained the issue very well. It's not specifically about the rate of blood clot incidents, it's the unusual manner in which they are presenting, particularly in the age group concerned.

It warrants investigation. I hope it's done quickly and the AZ vaccine can be safely rolled out again very soon.

To the people convinced this is some sort of political attack by the EU on the UK, you do realise that Norway is not part of the EU? And that many counties in the EU have not suspended AZ?

@CuriousaboutSamphire - Pfizer likely to be approved first for 12-15yo - www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20210128/pfizer-fully-enrolls-pediatric-covid19-vaccine-trial-with-more-than-2k-kids.
Oxford AZ trial goes down to age 6: www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2021/02/15/AstraZeneca-Oxford-to-trial-COVID-19-vaccine-in-children.
Moderna also age 12+:
www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/health/Covid-Moderna-vaccine-children.html.

With all 3 in active trials, there's no reason why at least one won't be ready for approval by autumn.

@Sakura7

Spot on *@Evanna13*

There was an interview on RTE last night with an Irish doctor working in Norway, he explained the issue very well. It's not specifically about the rate of blood clot incidents, it's the unusual manner in which they are presenting, particularly in the age group concerned.

It warrants investigation. I hope it's done quickly and the AZ vaccine can be safely rolled out again very soon.

To the people convinced this is some sort of political attack by the EU on the UK, you do realise that Norway is not part of the EU? And that many counties in the EU have not suspended AZ?

As a few have said, Norway's response seems to be the right one for Norway!

But the bandwaggoning across the EU and further is somewaht nonsensical, hysterical even!

Yes, we know Norway is not in the EU!

@Belladonna12

That is why the EMA are meeting today to discuss the actual evidence. They will look in detail at the four Norwegian cases and the data from AZ. They will make an independent decision. I am glad they are taking it seriously that they are being cautious and prudent. I expect they will resume AZ vaccines later this week. It is a short pause. 17 countries have now paused the AZ vaccine. I have researched this in detail and there is no way that I am being manipulated. We can agree to disagree.

As I said above, of course they're going to look at the actual evidence. However, they have said in the meantime, people should continue to have it. They don't say that if there is a real concern. They suspend the drug licence while they look at it. The fact the actual regulatory bodies who are in charge of drug safety have not suspended it and that it is been done by individual governments demonstrates it is a political rather than public health decision. It's all about politicians making you think they are taking it seriously.

It's about liability in the event that there is an increased risk. It's not likely but the risks of suspending the vaccine for 7-10 are absolutely minimal. We're holding on to vaccines, if/when they are given the go ahead, we'll just have a couple of weeks of a faster rate of vaccination to catch up. It's lack of supply that is currently slowing European vaccination. Hanging on to some vaccines for a few days while you double check a potential adverse reaction makes far more sense than just ploughing on. At the end of a 28 day period European countries will still have administered the same amount of vaccines that they would have if they'd ploughed on.

But by suspending the vaccine, you are able to make people feel more secure when you restart it because we live in an area practicing an abundance of caution. And on the very slim chance that there is a link, you can't be sued by people who you gave it to while questions were hanging over it's safety.

@Belladonna12

That is why the EMA are meeting today to discuss the actual evidence. They will look in detail at the four Norwegian cases and the data from AZ. They will make an independent decision. I am glad they are taking it seriously that they are being cautious and prudent. I expect they will resume AZ vaccines later this week. It is a short pause. 17 countries have now paused the AZ vaccine. I have researched this in detail and there is no way that I am being manipulated. We can agree to disagree.

As I said above, of course they're going to look at the actual evidence. However, they have said in the meantime, people should continue to have it. They don't say that if there is a real concern. They suspend the drug licence while they look at it. The fact the actual regulatory bodies who are in charge of drug safety have not suspended it and that it is been done by individual governments demonstrates it is a political rather than public health decision. It's all about politicians making you think they are taking it seriously.

As I said we can agree to disagree. Personally I am happy they are taking it seriously with a slight pause to do so. The cases in Norway are extremely unusual (unusual clotting and symptoms in younger people). It us a cluster of unusual symptoms and death related to a specific batch of vaccine, a batch we have in Ireland.

I do not know why Pfizer have not been paused, possibly because any adverse reactions they have seen are more typical.