Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

@TheKeatingFive

The problem with being anti Covid vaccines right now is what is your alternative?

Lockdown for years.

Letting it rip and seeing how the nhs fares.

Which?

Seeing as the JCVI prioritised the vaccination of the groups most likely to be hospitalised, the NHS should be fine when restrictions are eased. That was the point.

Seeing as the JCVI prioritised the vaccination of the groups most likely to be hospitalised, the NHS should be fine when restrictions are eased. That was the point.

You’re depending on all the vulnerable groups to be pro vax then, for that plan to work.

Why should they all take it, if you aren’t prepared to?

What about the vulnerable who are medically unable to take it?

Or for whom it doesn’t work well on?

Ah yes! Kids, teens, younger people - you are on your own cos you won't all get that ill.

And remember, you live on that half of the gobe. The old and vulnerable live in this half. You can come and work for us if you wear hazmat suits!

Bagsy the warm half

And remember Covid 19 is KNOWN to cause the exact same low platelet count and abnormal blood clotting issue giving strokes in unusual places that it looks like these 5/6 people have experienced a few days after having the AZ vaccine. So if the choice is a 0.00001% chance of being one of the handful that experience it somehow caused or accelerated by being vaccinated, out of millions of people who have been fine - or the 0.01% of people who get it because they get Covid badly (or whatever the actual percentages are) - then there's a risk assessment to make, for sure, but most people would go with the numbers /chances of getting this issue by either route. And you're much, much more likely to get it from getting Covid 19. The other choice is to continue to hole up at home for another year I suppose and try to avoid getting covid, but that is unacceptable for many, many people.

To be fair it makes perfect sense for vulnerable people to be particularly willing to take a vaccine which has a small risk attached because their risk from the virus is so large. Regardless of the truth of this current scare no vaccination will ever be zero risk, even if the only risk is HCP error at point of injection, so younger healthier people for whom the personal benefit of vaccination is lower will always want to have a bit more of a think about how the risks and benefits stack up,

That’s the beauty of a system where we vaccinate the vulnerable first and get millions of data points to catch any rare side effects before we move onto lower risk individuals. The challenge is that if you vaccinate millions of people you’ll see negative medical events anyway.

Looking at the costs of all these vaccines, if one was sceptical, could not help thinking that US players could be concerned that AZ is jeopardising their market share (i.e. profits) being so cheap (and very close efficacy-wise)

The EU financially supported the development of the BioNTech and Pfizer vaccine and has obtained a lower price per dose ($14.70 than the US ($19.50). The Moderna vaccine’s development was subsidised by the US government, and it will cost the US about $15 a dose, while the EU is paying $18

The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is much cheaper, although neither the UK nor the US can match the EU’s $2.15 deal: they are expecting to pay about $3 and $4, respectively, per dose

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n281

I agree

@PierreBezukov

I'm shocked that ROI has done this. Vaccine roll-out in NI is on a par with rest of UK and 50s are now being vaccinated.

In the south they're months and months behind and now pissing about suspending perfectly good vaccines for political point scoring? It's shocking.

I don't know what's going to happen at the border when we're all vaccinated and they're not. I'll be livid if it keeps us in lockdown for longer than we need to be.

ROI have not paused the AZ vaccine for political reasons. It is a public health decision which I support. It is for a week. I am glad they are doing this, it makes me feel they are taking it seriously. Yes, ROI are behind NI with vaccinations. This is due to supply. However they do expect to catch up over the coming months. The efficacy for AZ and J&J are very similar (around 71%). Neither are as efficious as the mrna vaccines. However beggars cannot be choosers and I will take what I am given. AZ and J&J are still very good vaccines. We live on an island here and we need to support each other. Last year ROI had our case levels extremely low due to much stricter restrictions than NI. The cases and deaths in NI were very high. This resulted in very high case numbers in our border counties. With this virus things will ebb and flow, we need to support each other and work together.

According to the published data, the cases in Austria, Denmark, Norway where people had the issues happened 4-10 days after their vaccinations. So anyone further down the line probably doesn't need to worry about this if they've already had the AZ vaccine.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Having looked at all of the names now every one of them is!

And we are supposed to take anything that poster says seriously, now we all know where they are comng from?

PSHAW!

I think they just post this stuff hoping that someone will follow them down the rabbit hole. I've googled posts like that loads of times and they always lead to well documented conspiracy theorists. To be honest I don't bother checking any more because they are all the same.

I only bothered that time because of those agreeing with it! As you say, you can almost guarantee that any such post will be full of charlatans with an opinion!

@TheKeatingFive
Vaccination for those who want it

Care home residents who have been discharged from hospital with covid, to be treated in a Nightingale hospital, and not put straight back into a care home to infect others.

NHS hospitals - some of them, or the trusts seem to be much better and pay much more attention to covid than others - so the others need to be brought into line

Ongoing and ramped up ICU capabilities including more beds, staff. It seems to be staffing that is an issue in ICUs particularly, so I would hope that all hospitals are training more staff, and then training others to fill their posts.

tbh, there are better brains than mine who could help improve things.

The finance of the UK needs to be kept on an even keel, else how are things going to be paid for?

There have been many threads on MN on all of this.

I think it is high time, instead of people everywhere squabbling amongst each other, about all things covid, that people look towards the government and see how they are dealing with things.

ROI have not paused the AZ vaccine for political reasons. It is a public health decision which I support. It is for a week. I am glad they are doing this, it makes me feel they are taking it seriously.

I'm sorry, but this is total rubbish. If it were for 'public health reasons' why haven't they also paused Pfizer, which has been responsible for more blood clotting events globally?

It absolutely was a political decision and a disgraceful one (speaking as an Irish person).

The efficacy for AZ and J&J are very similar (around 71%).

That's true only of mild disease. AZ is extremely efficacious in preventing moderate/severe disease - as good as Pfizer. That does not appear to be true of J&J.

The finance of the UK needs to be kept on an even keel, else how are things going to be paid for?

Do you know what is a LOT cheaper than endless lockdowns or drastically ramping up the capacity of the NHS at short notice?

That's right - vaccines

@TheKeatingFive

Seeing as the JCVI prioritised the vaccination of the groups most likely to be hospitalised, the NHS should be fine when restrictions are eased. That was the point.

You’re depending on all the vulnerable groups to be pro vax then, for that plan to work.

Why should they all take it, if you aren’t prepared to?

The vast majority have. Have you seen the uptake figures? They knew that there wouldn’t be 100% uptake.

“JCVI advised that the implementation of the COVID-19 vaccine programme should aim to achieve high vaccine uptake. Whilst the programme seeks to achieve 100% coverage for all groups, best practice in existing programmes has achieved 75% of total population cohorts. An age-based programme will likely result in faster delivery and better uptake in those at the highest risk.”

“ Data published today shows comparable vaccine programmes achieved a 75% uptake rate, but so far, the COVID-19 vaccination programme has exceeded expectations, seeing 93% uptake in those over 75 years of age. Our aim remains to achieve the highest possible uptake in all other groups.”

ROI have not paused the AZ vaccine for political reasons. It is a public health decision which I support. It is for a week. I am glad they are doing this, it makes me feel they are taking it seriously.

Of course it's a political decision- they are doing it so people like you think they are taking it seriously .If it was a public health decision, it would be based on actual evidence that thrombosis cases are higher in those who have been vaccinated and those are not. As it's actually the other way round and the delay could mean more people die of Covid public health is clearly not the priority. Wake up and smell the coffee. You are being manipulated.

if it was a for health reasons then women wouldn't be allowed to take contraception which causes many more trombo cases.

@bumbleymummy - will you address why it's ok for you not to get vaccinated to protect pregnant women who aren't advised to have the vaccine please? Also cancer patients and very elderly who are less likely to get good immunity - why is it fair for them to be collateral damage?

@TheKeatingFive

The finance of the UK needs to be kept on an even keel, else how are things going to be paid for?

Do you know what is a LOT cheaper than endless lockdowns or drastically ramping up the capacity of the NHS at short notice?

That's right - vaccines

vaccines was my first point

[quote MRex]@bumbleymummy - will you address why it's ok for you not to get vaccinated to protect pregnant women who aren't advised to have the vaccine please? Also cancer patients and very elderly who are less likely to get good immunity - why is it fair for them to be collateral damage?[/quote]
Can you explain why I am putting them more at risk than the millions of children who aren’t vaccinated? (Many pregnant women have other children in schools) Can you explain why you think natural immunity after recovery isn’t as good as vaccine immunity?

Does anyone in Ireland know what vaccines stocks Ireland currently have and what thye ordered?
I assume phizer and az..
Did they order any moderna as UK due to get uts moderna soon and we increased initial order and uk ordered slightly later than eu.
Germany already had a lot of moderna stock they only used a 1/3 so far.
Also j and j i can not find out anywhere if they started producing in Europe because we know starting production initially there were teething problems with current 3 ut took time.
Will instant stock of j and j be available to European countries in April?
Think j and j being made in Switzerland same as moderna no eu but bottled in Europe so yes eu could impose export bans on moderna and and j and j.

We really should ramping up the capacity of the NHS anyway. It can barely cope most winters, never mind when there’s a pandemic.

STOP IT!

We had that discussion already. Unvaccinated kids are really not a Gotcha!

It is, as was patiently explained by many, a process. Kids may well be vaccinated, trials are ongoing. Natural immunity? Also trials ongoing. You are relying on things that are not known, which is weird!

Your persistence in not explaining your own thoughts and demanding others explain theirs is quite exhausting.

What is your REAL issue with the covid vaccines?