What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

@Devlesko

I'm waiting to see how safe it is longer term. Not swayed by holidays and events.

How long are you waiting?

Vaccinologists have said that late-developing side effects are not a thing - you either have issues soon after vaccination, or not at all. Presumably you’re not sure about that - so how long is long enough?

From the beginning we have been told repeatedly that restrictions placed on the population were solely about relieving pressure on the NHS. If the vaccine is efficient at reducing hospitalisation among the most at risk groups as we are being led to believe then the goal has been achieved.

The focus should now be on the research introduction of promising drugs to treat those unfortunate enough to require treatment, such as ivermectin.

@reformedcharacters

NEWSFLASH

Viruses mutate it’s not new or exclusive to covid.

No, but this level of chaos was pretty extreme so I think all the sensible people are keen to avoid a covid mutation that renders the vaccine less effective.

I think most of the refusers will be in the lower age ranges or children, who don't get particularly sick anyway so won't need hospitalisation. So the very sick ones who get the virus and are older won't give rise to many more hospitalisations. Probably no more than the normal flu and pneumonia cases. Its their choice but I hope with continuing vaccination, herd immunity and better treatments it will be just another winter virus

@BeingATwatItsABingThing

The restrictions put in place for people who haven’t had a vaccine are all fine and good but I’ll be mightily pissed off if I’ve spent the last year of my life locked down to protect the vulnerable and elderly only for them to have more freedom than me because I haven’t had my vaccine yet. I will gladly have it but am a way off being eligible. My Dad is only just having his first one this week and he’s 60 next year and asthmatic.

I just have to hope these restrictions don’t actually come into fruition.

I feel similar. I won't get it for a while yet due to age etc, and am going to struggle if we are denied freedoms as we are not vaccinated yet but all the people we have given up over a year of our lives to protect are allowed to travel etc.

reformedcharacters

I hope those in support of coerced/forced medical treatment and the abolition of medical privacy will be fine when HIV status is added or employers can access other records such as whether smear tests are up to date”

I wouldn’t be concerned because there’s no shame in those 🤷‍♀️

@DenisetheMenace

reformedcharacters

I hope those in support of coerced/forced medical treatment and the abolition of medical privacy will be fine when HIV status is added or employers can access other records such as whether smear tests are up to date”

I wouldn’t be concerned because there’s no shame in those 🤷‍♀️

Good for you....maybe not for people who may be forced to reveal things like mental health history and alcohol consumption.

There used to be a word years ago for what we are seeing now.

MaxNormal
Ffs. They should put us in stocks on the village square.
Some of us can't have the vaccine, please stop this fucking pariah narrative.“

That’s why everyone who can, should, to help to protect you.

@TooManyPlatesInMotion

I know a few people who feel the same. I was perfectly happy to give up that year to protect those people. My parents are both vulnerable to the virus and I was pregnant during the first lockdown. I am not happy to continue giving up my life indefinitely though.

@DenisetheMenace

reformedcharacters

I hope those in support of coerced/forced medical treatment and the abolition of medical privacy will be fine when HIV status is added or employers can access other records such as whether smear tests are up to date”

I wouldn’t be concerned because there’s no shame in those 🤷‍♀️

No stigma in HIV status?

People are so naive.

This kind of 'I'm cool with fascism' fashion is really frightening to me.

@BeingATwatItsABingThing yes, absolutely, and the cracks will really break wide open if the vaccinated get to holiday, travel, basically have fun... While those of us still waiting do not.

Vaccines are a way to speed up her immunity - there is a percentage of the population that needs to be vaccinated in order to achieve this. For measles it is 95%. We don't know what it is for covid yet but Israel is reporting that they think it is 90%. That is what is being pushed for and of course there will be new jabs for varients etc like with flu. I'm not sure how comfortable I feel about people being forced to have jabs i just think we need to get better information out there particularly to certain groups (age groups and cultural groups who have high levels of people refusing due to believing crap from their community leaders or the internet).

I have huge sympathy for all those people who cannot medically be safely vaccinated. I have also got sympathy for the deprived groups who are currently refusing vaccines in higher numbers, for instance because systemic racism has eroded trust in the medical establishment. At the same time, how would I feel in a year‘s time if my kid‘s school class (fairy privileged area) had to isolate for two weeks because a family known to have refused vaccines got Covid? Or if an unvaccinated healthcare worker transmitted Covid to my elderly parent? And if you were a restaurant or gym, already financially fragile from the pandemic, I get how you’d want to get people through your doors by holding these vaccine based policies. I do think that this kind of issue could become really tricky and quite nasty if insufficient immunity leads to ongoing restrictions for us all. It’s awful if they cause discrimination to groups who cannot be vaccinated, but also because some of the people refusing are already disadvantaged. Some other cases for refusing I find it harder to relate to. It’s complex but yeah a tricky future scenario

In my own wider family those who have refused it will be the first to shouldn't about

Recovery from infection also confers immunity and contributes to herd immunity.

No stigma in HIV status?

People are so naive.”

Seriously?

Yes, when I was young and the tombstone adverts were playing on TV every night, there was fear and stigma.

Most people of my age (56) don’t bat an eyelid about HIV now. I certainly wouldn’t stigmatise someone who contracted it. Not sure how that makes me a fascist?

@DenisetheMenace

No stigma in HIV status?

People are so naive.”

Seriously?

Yes, when I was young and the tombstone adverts were playing on TV every night, there was fear and stigma.

Most people of my age (56) don’t bat an eyelid about HIV now. I certainly wouldn’t stigmatise someone who contracted it. Not sure how that makes me a fascist?

You're deluded if you think everyone with HIV is happy for it to be common knowledge.

I CBA to waste time arguing but you are so wrong about this. The view that people's medical status/history should not be private is genuinely disgusting and dangerous.

ChameleonClara

I can only tell you what I know, which is that I don’t stigmatise someone with HIV any more than I do someone with cancer, MS, dementia. None of my friends do either, I suppose we’re of like mind.
If you tell me otherwise, I’ve no reason to doubt you but it’s not my experience.
Not sure what else I can say 🤷‍♀️

@DenisetheMenace

ChameleonClara

I can only tell you what I know, which is that I don’t stigmatise someone with HIV any more than I do someone with cancer, MS, dementia. None of my friends do either, I suppose we’re of like mind.
If you tell me otherwise, I’ve no reason to doubt you but it’s not my experience.
Not sure what else I can say 🤷‍♀️

I wish you would read up on medical ethics/privacy.

I'm scared by how many allegedly 'decent' people hold really abhorrent views at the moment.

I don't think you do stigmatise. But you must be aware that Britain has other people not exactly like you living here?

I think people will get the vaccine if it affects their holiday plans, and the utter selfishness of that is really depressing. In those cases, and I think there are a fair amount, it'll be "what's in it for me".

Other countries have managed to make critical vaccinations mandatory for certain activities such as going to school. They manage not to divulge any other medical information, the two things are not intrinsically linked. If you join a gym you have to give a good deal of medical information, including getting Drs letters and providing copies of medical records if you fail the screening. Medical history before you have a massage. It’s not totally unprecedented that you’re denied access to places of you don’t pass their health screening!

I don't think you do stigmatise. But you must be aware that Britain has other people not exactly like you living here?“

Yes of course but I do believe they’re fewer and more far between than ever before. I hope so, anyway.

I love my parents dearly (70s and 80s) but they’re products of their time and hold some ingrained, unpleasant views about gay people, transgender people, immigrants.

Our kids (26 and 18) on the other hand, don’t because that’s not been their upbringing or experience. Homophobia, racism, negative views of disability are anathema to them and their friends and I think in their age groups that’s pretty much the norm.

As I said, I have no reason at all to doubt you but I find the idea that some people still stigmatise people with the misfortune to contract a virus that any of us could pretty shocking.

I’m sorry if I’ve offended you. As I said, I can only speak about my experience. The hysteria in the 80s was quite something: thankfully, I don’t see it now but of course others have different realities.

People with HIV and access to modern treatments have virtually normal life expectancy these days. It’s not really the situation it was in the 80s where it was literally a death sentence. A lot of prejudice comes from fear

We're (locally) currently running at 86% is the over 80s, falling by age down to around 78/80% but are offering catch ups. We've had some quite angry and indignant replies to the offer, so far. I'll be pleased if we manage over 80% on average.

You haven't offended me. I'm honestly afraid that (presumably) good people can't see the issue with removing individual rights and espousing policies that are totalitarian.

I think Britain is creeping closer to a very dangerous place as nice people don't see the harm in a little bit of fascism if done for good reasons.

We need good people to start thinking things through more. It isn't lack of education, something else is causing this problem.