What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

[quote PuzzledObserver]@user1497207191

There'd be few, if any, "vulnerable" people in the trials, i.e. those with impaired immunity due to, say, cancer, wouldn't have been eligible for the trials.

Exactly, and with vulnerable people in the wider community and a much larger number receiving the vaccine, the 100% protection from hospitalisation and death of the trials will not be replicated in the population. That was my point - a vaccinated person is highly protected, but not 100% protected. Therefore they may want to limit their contact with unvaccinated others, if they themselves are vulnerable or live with someone who is.[/quote]
Hence why there's an argument for health/care workers to be vaccinated - to protect the vulnerable in their care who don't have a choice about who they come into contact with in hospital or care homes.

I already linked to one population study, not a clinical trial (which weren’t all low risk volunteers anyway).

And again what about all the visitors to a hospital/care home and service users? Or should we ban unvaccinated people from receiving treatment and visiting relatives?

@Parker231

There are a very small number who medically shouldn’t have the vaccine. For those who chose not to they may find restrictions but in place by their employer, businesses, airlines and other countries.

I know that it is thought that people with certain conditions might not mount an immune response but I'm curious what medical conditions prevent vaccination. Is it allergies?

My understanding is that people with a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to any component of the COVID-19 vaccine should NOT receive the vaccine but I’m not aware of any other group - this would only be a very small number of people.

A relative contra-indication would also be disordered clotting because it can be dangerous to inject into the muscle (rather than anything to do with the vaccine). It would depend on severity and is often reversible/treatable e.g. by altering dose of warfarin

I'm still waiting for the people who are saying that they won't go to a restaurant where unvaccinated people are allowed or will only hire a vaccinated tradesperson to explain why.
Let’s say for arguments sake that me being vaccinated is 90% effective in preventing me catching Covid. That means if I’m exposed to someone who’s infected I have a 10% chance of catching it. But if I’m exposed to someone who is not infected I have a 0% chance of catching it. Therefore it makes sense to avoid the people who have the highest chance of being infected, i.e. the unvaccinated.

I don't let my children play with unvaccinated children, I will not be playing with unvaccinated adults.

@annanicolesmith

I don't let my children play with unvaccinated children, I will not be playing with unvaccinated adults.

I’m taking it your children are vaccinated? So what’s the problem? If you don’t believe vaccines are effective why put one in your child?

(All mine are vaccinated)

@annanicolesmith

I don't let my children play with unvaccinated children, I will not be playing with unvaccinated adults.

How would you know? Do you routinely ask your friends for their vaccination records?

I know that it is thought that people with certain conditions might not mount an immune response but I'm curious what medical conditions prevent vaccination. Is it allergies?

History of severe reactions to a variet of different medical interventions. It's too much of a risk for me. Every time I react badly to something I'm stuffed for months and more damage is done.
I had covid and it was mild.
So in my case, this medical intervention will carry far more of a risk than any likely benefits, which is the appropriate measure for accepting any medical treatment.

@annanicolesmith

I don't let my children play with unvaccinated children, I will not be playing with unvaccinated adults.

I wouldn't have a clue out of my dc friends who had been vaccinated and who hadn't nor would I have the brass neck to ask

Hold on, I didn't think kids could be vaccinated against COVID?

How would you know? Do you routinely ask your friends for their vaccination records?
You don’t need to ask them. If they’re anti-vaxxers they will smugly announce it as soon as they get the chance.

@BlueSoop

How would you know? Do you routinely ask your friends for their vaccination records? You don’t need to ask them. If they’re anti-vaxxers they will smugly announce it as soon as they get the chance.

I know a few people who wont be having it and they don't announce it at all. They are also not anti-vaxxers.

I quite don't want covid jab. I've told one person irl but in a jokey way. He has no idea how strongly I feel. I will probably get jab anyway so I can get travel insurance to see my relatives (5000 miles away). Entirely coerced decision from my pov.

I'm not anti-vax. I've actively sought out voluntary flu jab before. I baulk at the many coercive aspects of this situation & all the knee jerk decisions. Discovered Libertarian instincts that astonish me. My gut feeling is to never seek a flu jab again, and any screening, too. Only if I'm absolutely convinced of benefit to me personally.

@Alondra

Viruses tend to become less lethal over time.

Yes. But in the meantime they can wipe out 50% of the population if left unchecked.

Remember the scare with Ebola in 2014?

This is not Ebola

I think the numbers not having the vaccine will gradually go down as a) it becomes more familiar and b) your life becomes more restricted if you don’t have it - not just travel but potentially certain occupations, businesses, and busy indoor venues like theatres and cinemas. Obviously no one should or would be denied access to essential services, but the rest is probably up for grabs.

Your body's natural immune response leads to more powerful and long lasting protection against future infections. Lots of studies into this. Most vaccines try to mimic the body's natural responses. No good if you are vulnerable to and might die from the virus but really good if you're healthy. I struggle to see why healthy people should be vaccinated against influenza type viruses rather than letting nature do its thing.

I struggle to see why healthy people should be vaccinated against influenza type viruses rather than letting nature do its thing
Every unvaccinated person poses a risk because if they get infected a new strain of Covid could develop inside their body. Then it could spread to everyone if the mutation is one that can evade vaccine protection. The only way to stop new strains appearing is to vaccinate everyone.

Covid is not the flu. We need everyone vaccinated against Covid to prevent new variants mutating.

On an individual level we all have a right to choose whether to have the vaccine or not.
No one should feel victimised for not having it especially those who can't. If it is made a condition for travel exemptions should exist for those who can't.
The only issue I have is with anti vaxxers who are trying to persuade others not to have vaccine.

@MaxNormal

Ffs. They should put us in stocks on the village square. Some of us can't have the vaccine, please stop this fucking pariah narrative.

Well said @MaxNormal

NEWSFLASH

Viruses mutate it’s not new or exclusive to covid.

Every unvaccinated person poses a risk because if they get infected a new strain of Covid could develop inside their body.

That's far more likely to happen in immune compromised people, where the virus gets a foothold and much longer to develop mutations due to prolonged infection. In healthy people, not so much.

I have spent some time researching different covid vaccines and unfortunately currently there is no proof that the vaccines prevent you from catching covid and from passing it on. The only certain is that it reduces the risk of hospitalisation and death. Therefore being fair you could argue that those vaccinated are more dangerous to the unvaccinated ones as they can still catch and pass on the virus and because of the mild symptoms they may not be aware that they are doing it. In terms od the vaccine passports what about those who just had covid, in some cases even after 10mths they have such a high level of antibodies that they can donate plasma...so vaccine may be redundant for them for some time....