What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

@BlueSoop

As soon as the unvaccinated actually see their vaccinated friends accessing things that they cannot, 90% of them will be asking for a vaccine. Agreed. I will strongly support restaurants who require proof of vaccination before entry. I will be requesting to be treated by HCPs who have been vaccinated. I won’t hire a tradesman who hasn’t been vaccinated - I’ve already seen an advert for a plumber saying “Covid secure business, vaccinated plumber available on request”.

Brilliant. I will support this.

I hope those in support of coerced/forced medical treatment and the abolition of medical privacy will be fine when HIV status is added or employers can access other records such as whether smear tests are up to date.

@reformedcharacters

I hope those in support of coerced/forced medical treatment and the abolition of medical privacy will be fine when HIV status is added or employers can access other records such as whether smear tests are up to date.

Or perhaps a religious employer wants to know if any abortions on record

I don’t think many have considered the wider and damaging long-term consequences of forced/coerced medical treatment.

Just wondering if those who refuse the vaccine (not those who are unable to have it) will be happy to be back living in ‘normality’ on the backs of those of us who have been vaccinated?

If the risks of the vaccine are so great then surely we should get some sort of Parade or something for the terrible danger that we have faced so that you can go back to the pub..

I don’t really want the vaccine but I want to be able to travel so I have to have it. Relying on negative tests each time would be expensive and time consuming and I wouldn’t want to risk having to quarantine anywhere. So I put myself in the “will grudgingly accept the vaccine” category. I suspect quite a few people will wind up in that category.

I'm still waiting for the people who are saying that they won't go to a restaurant where unvaccinated people are allowed or will only hire a vaccinated tradesperson to explain why.
I really don't understand the reasoning and it would be interesting to know why.
Once you are vaccinated then you are protected so it is of no concern to you whether your plumber is vaccinated or not.

(I am not an anti-vaxxer. I will almost certainly get the vaccine myself when it becomes available for my age group)

@EstuaryBird

Just wondering if those who refuse the vaccine (not those who are unable to have it) will be happy to be back living in ‘normality’ on the backs of those of us who have been vaccinated?

If the risks of the vaccine are so great then surely we should get some sort of Parade or something for the terrible danger that we have faced so that you can go back to the pub..

OK, I'll bite. Yes I'll be doing as I please but then I kind of have anyway.

@BlueSoop

As soon as the unvaccinated actually see their vaccinated friends accessing things that they cannot, 90% of them will be asking for a vaccine. Agreed. I will strongly support restaurants who require proof of vaccination before entry. I will be requesting to be treated by HCPs who have been vaccinated. I won’t hire a tradesman who hasn’t been vaccinated - I’ve already seen an advert for a plumber saying “Covid secure business, vaccinated plumber available on request”.

You do realise that you can't ask for proof of anything like this from anyone, everyone has the right to privacy relating to their medical records and i doubt from GDPR perspective there would be a "covid register" thats open and available to restaurants and other places like that. I'm quite sure if you turn up in A&E needing urgent care you won't be asking for anyones vaccination status before accepting treatment nor would you ask any nurse or doctor to see their degree certificates either. If we do go down that route im sure that "fake covid passports " would somehow make their way onto the market in some way or another, i mean you can buy a mask exempt card from Amazon for a fiver without having to provide any proof. You could ask your tradesman if they have been vaccinated or not, how will you know if they have or haven't? All ive got is a hand written card with my name and batch number on, that could easily be lost or left in a pocket and washed and ruined.

icdtap

I'm still waiting for the people who are saying that they won't go to a restaurant where unvaccinated people are allowed or will only hire a vaccinated tradesperson to explain why.
I really don't understand the reasoning and it would be interesting to know why.
Once you are vaccinated then you are protected so it is of no concern to you whether your plumber is vaccinated or not.”

For us, it’s because my husband (who’s only 61) has a nasty, life threatening genetic disorder, episodes of which can be set off by any infection. He will be 80/90% protected after both jabs, which is fantastic but, for us, 10/20% is still a risk worth avoiding if we can. It’s not the fear of Covid itself, it’s the fear of his condition being set off by it.

We don’t go to crowded, indoor places in “normal” times anyway but occasionally need to have work done at home when, yes, we would ask.

@DenisetheMenace

icdtap

I'm still waiting for the people who are saying that they won't go to a restaurant where unvaccinated people are allowed or will only hire a vaccinated tradesperson to explain why.
I really don't understand the reasoning and it would be interesting to know why.
Once you are vaccinated then you are protected so it is of no concern to you whether your plumber is vaccinated or not.”

For us, it’s because my husband (who’s only 61) has a nasty, life threatening genetic disorder, episodes of which can be set off by any infection. He will be 80/90% protected after both jabs, which is fantastic but, for us, 10/20% is still a risk worth avoiding if we can. It’s not the fear of Covid itself, it’s the fear of his condition being set off by it.

We don’t go to crowded, indoor places in “normal” times anyway but occasionally need to have work done at home when, yes, we would ask.

Do you normally ask for proof of flu vaccines or any other vaccines?

I would love to have it; I’m not there yet as I’m young and no health problems. But my mental health is awful and I suffer from severe anxiety/panic disorder - mainly around illness and allergies. So I’m battling with my own mind at the moment as I’d like to have the vaccine, but am also terrified I’ll be one of the small percentage to have a severe reaction and potentially fatal outcome (unlikely really but try telling my brain that!)

@DenisetheMenace

icdtap

I'm still waiting for the people who are saying that they won't go to a restaurant where unvaccinated people are allowed or will only hire a vaccinated tradesperson to explain why.
I really don't understand the reasoning and it would be interesting to know why.
Once you are vaccinated then you are protected so it is of no concern to you whether your plumber is vaccinated or not.”

For us, it’s because my husband (who’s only 61) has a nasty, life threatening genetic disorder, episodes of which can be set off by any infection. He will be 80/90% protected after both jabs, which is fantastic but, for us, 10/20% is still a risk worth avoiding if we can. It’s not the fear of Covid itself, it’s the fear of his condition being set off by it.

We don’t go to crowded, indoor places in “normal” times anyway but occasionally need to have work done at home when, yes, we would ask.

And what proof do you want? Because apart from a flimsy piece of card that will ruin easy or can easily be lost no one has anything

For us, it’s because my husband (who’s only 61) has a nasty, life threatening genetic disorder, episodes of which can be set off by any infection. He will be 80/90% protected after both jabs, which is fantastic but, for us, 10/20% is still a risk worth avoiding if we can. It’s not the fear of Covid itself, it’s the fear of his condition being set off by it.

Ok. Yes, I can see why you would want to be careful in that case. But couldn't he go into another room when a tradesperson is there to avoid contact? If any infection could trigger his condition then he would be at risk when anyone comes in, even if vaccinated for COVID, because the person might have an infection for which there is no vaccine or which is not commonly vaccinated.

@OpheliasCrayon

I personally am waiting to be stood up against a wall and shot at dawn because I have turned down the offer of a vaccine twice.

And also I think you need to be realistic, there will easily be 20% that don't , probably more. I have legitimate reasons not to have it, but quite frankly if someone doesn't want a vaccine they shouldn't have to have it, whatever the reason

Why?

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@ChameleonClara,

I think children will also be vaccinated in the U.K. ahead of next winter. Trials are ongoing now.[/quote]
Trials in children are only in over 6a.

Yes we have asked about ‘flu for years and we’ve explained why. Most people are understanding.
Everyone in the family is aware, as are friends. We’re not enormous socialites and our friends are in our age group and have their jabs as a matter of course anyway. Our kids (26 and 18) have the annual ‘flu jab, as does our SIL and his parents and we’ve paid for some private jabs too (pneumonia and the latest meningitis jabs which the kids missed out on because of their ages.)

We take every care we can and it’s become routine now.

Icdtap

Ok. Yes, I can see why you would want to be careful in that case. But couldn't he go into another room when a tradesperson is there to avoid contact? If any infection could trigger his condition then he would be at risk when anyone comes in, even if vaccinated for COVID, because the person might have an infection for which there is no vaccine or which is not commonly vaccinated”

This sounds sad, but not many people come in

Yes, it could, and he’s often ill. His consultant instructed his GP some years ago to provide antibiotics at the first hint of infection and they’re very good, it just takes a phone call. Still ends up in hospital sometimes but it keeps it to a minimum.

Wellbythebloodyhell

I find that most people tend to tell the truth when they know why you’re asking.
Very few people deliberately want to harm anyone else, surely?

Assuming we’re talking about refusers/avoiders.

Don’t get too attached to them.

Take out life insurance on them.

More seriously if we are talking about all - including those who can’t have it for proper medical reasons.

Sadly some will die because of the selfishness/foolhardiness of the casual refusers/avoiders.

Sadly some will die because of the selfishness/foolhardiness of the casual refusers/avoiders.

Genuine question, because I haven't had an invitation yet so only going off the information I'm reading in the press and forums, but why will some die if others dont have the vaccine? From what I read it doesn't prevent transmission or give full protection from catching covid, but lessens the severity if you do get it.

You need to update your reading RollOnSummer. Yes the vaccines do prevent transmission to a significant extent.

I’m hoping that it at least becomes mandatory for healthcare workers and care staff. The uptake in our local hospitals trust is embarrassingly poor.

There's a niche forum that I'm on a lot. They have a "covid" section that's dominated by people who are against covid restrictions, against lockdowns, against masks, against social distancing etc - many think it's all a conspiracy to control us. Now most are ant-vax too. A casual observer on that site would think that probably 75% of people would refuse the vaccine.

In the main section, someone put up a poll asking who'd have the vaccine and who wouldn't. To date, it's had hundreds of votes and the percentage is 95% those who will have it and only 5% those who won't.

The "anti" forum section is just an unrepresentative echo chamber.

A bit like elections - some people are louder than others but lots of other people are quiet. I think it was called the "Shy Tory" effect a few elections ago when Tories won and all the media and opinion polls were proved wrong.

Sadly some will die because of the selfishness/foolhardiness of the casual refusers/avoiders

I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life in some sort of exclusion half way house quite frankly.