What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

I believe a lot more people have had Covid than have tested positive for Covid.

This is undoubtedly the case. Some people will be asymptomatic, some can't be bothered/don't want to test, some assume they've got it because household members have tested positive and therefore don't see the point in testing if they're isolating anyway... etc, etc, etc...

This new report shows that people over 65 who have had covid have only 47% protection from reinfection, compared to 80% of younger people. This highlights the importance of vaccinating everyone, the report says.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/older-people-more-likely-to-catch-covid-a-second-time?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

It highlights the need for older people to get regular boosters to keep their immunity levels high. Why would you have to vaccinate younger people who are already immune?

Because they're not immune-they can have up to 80% immunity, as it says in the article. I think this might persuade a number of people who care about their older relatives, and society in general, to have the vaccine.

Vaccines don’t offer total immunity either. After reading some of the other threads on here with a large number promoting the idea that it’s tough if younger people are excluded from certain activities as the vaccine has not yet been offered it’s unreasonable to pull out the moral duty argument.

80% of younger people are protected from reinfection for 6+ months compared to 47% of older people. So 80% of younger people are immune to reinfection for 6+ months compared to a much lower percentage in the older population - the ones most likely to be hospitalised.

@letthegrassgrow

As I said. Surely you can see that the 20%, which can't be helped, PLUS the anti vaxxers, which can, are therefore a risk to older people. I just can't understand why some people wouldn't care about getting vaccinated in those circumstances. Even if you don't personally know older people, you're bound to mix with them.

@letthegrassgrow

“ I just can't understand why some people wouldn't care about getting vaccinated in those circumstances.”

Because the majority are already immune and are therefore not a risk to anyone. The effectiveness of the vaccines is around 80% too - some are lower. That’s considered acceptable.

I'm 65 and had Covid asymptomatically. I still have antibodies 8 months later. I don't see any reason to get the vaccine. Even if I come into contact with it again I am confident my immune system will deal with it just like it did last time. The virus would have to mutate to a far more serious form for me to reconsider my decision.

I can see you didn't read that article. I'm wasting my time here.

@letthegrassgrow I did read it. I think you’ve misunderstood what it says.

It does make sense to vaccinate the older groups, even if they’ve previously been infected, because natural immunity doesn’t last as long for them. The majority of people in the younger groups are still immune after 6+ months and are not, as you said earlier, putting others at risk.

I'd like to know if those who refuse the vaccination NOT because of any medical reasons think that we should all be refusing, if it's so dangerous/untested/taking away your rights/whatever the reason you might have. How do they think we would ever get out of this situation if we all refused? I am due to have it, reluctantly I must confess as I fear allergic reaction, but will do it as I think it is my responsibility.

The decision to take or not take the vaccine should be an individual choice and not forced/coerced by the removal of freedoms.

Most I know who don’t want it just yet is because they wouldn’t require a flu jab so don’t want this one.

How do they think we would ever get out of this situation if we all refused?

If everyone refused, most people would contract the virus, recover and gain immunity that way and we would eventually reach herd immunity levels. HOWEVER, that would result in an unacceptable level of hospitalisations and deaths and the nhs would be overwhelmed. By vaccinating the people most likely to be seriously ill, we reduce the risk of hospitalisations and deaths. There has been a really high uptake of the vaccine in this group. Higher than the 75% that is usually expected.

The people who are at very low risk may still contract the disease but they are more likely to have mild/asymptomatic illness and recover. They will be immune after infection and will also be contributing to herd immunity. So even if no one in the lower risk groups had the vaccine, we would still reach a level of herd immunity through a combination of natural immunity after infection in the less vulnerable groups and vaccine induced immunity in the more vulnerable groups. The thing is, plenty of low risk people will have the vaccine too.

How do they think we would ever get out of this situation if we all refused

Probably much quicker by letting it rip through the population and getting herd immunity that way.
I think for all the lockdowns and vaccines we have only extended the time we have Covid for. I think the amount of deaths will be similar overall only instead of it burning out in 2-3 years it won’t go away for many more years to come and we will still have many deaths each year.
I am interested in how long the vaccine lasts for and by stretching the time over many years will that mean that those of us who have had Covid will our immunity wane and we then become open to infection again

@ginghamstarfish

I'd like to know if those who refuse the vaccination NOT because of any medical reasons think that we should all be refusing, if it's so dangerous/untested/taking away your rights/whatever the reason you might have. How do they think we would ever get out of this situation if we all refused? I am due to have it, reluctantly I must confess as I fear allergic reaction, but will do it as I think it is my responsibility.

Isn't everyone who won't have it doing so for medical reasons?

I don't personally care what other people decide to do with their bodies. If you have listened to all the info available to you and come to the conclusion you should have it, then have it.

What I strongly object to is the incessant pressure on people to have it who don't want to have it. Nobody is telling YOU not to have it, but you are telling ME I should be having it. That sort of thing.

And re getting out of this situation. Well not all of us think this situation was inevitable. Strongest, longest lockdown with highest death rate? We get out of this situation by living normally again, with a vaccine for those who want it and freedom back for those who don't.

@Bythemillpond

How do they think we would ever get out of this situation if we all refused

Probably much quicker by letting it rip through the population and getting herd immunity that way.
I think for all the lockdowns and vaccines we have only extended the time we have Covid for. I think the amount of deaths will be similar overall only instead of it burning out in 2-3 years it won’t go away for many more years to come and we will still have many deaths each year.
I am interested in how long the vaccine lasts for and by stretching the time over many years will that mean that those of us who have had Covid will our immunity wane and we then become open to infection again

100% this.

Strung it out for longer, more opportunity for mutations while it saunters around at a low rate, never ending but perpetually changing. Disaster on a global scale.

I am interested in how long the vaccine lasts for and by stretching the time over many years will that mean that those of us who have had Covid will our immunity wane and we then become open to infection again
Or you could just, you know, get an annual COVID vaccine?

Yes, lots of people might do that but I doubt the uptake will be anywhere near as high as this first year.

I wonder if we’ll find that continuing circulation of the virus will naturally boost people’s immune response - similar to chicken pox.

Thankfully there’s reports of France opening up to all

@reformedcharacters can you provide a link to this information please?

38 000 plus new cases today.
6pm curfew and all bars, restaurants and cafes closed since October.
It's not even "opened up" to the French.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/escapist/travel/summer-holidays-travel-destination-countries-guide-covid-vaccine-passport-b924502.html%3famp

There’s numerous news reports about this too.

FoonySpucker

For clarity my comment was in the context of vaccine passports being required for all travel out of the UK, some countries are indicating that they don’t intend to make them a requirement.

Countries will open up to tourists as and when they feel comfortable with it.

What I strongly object to is the incessant pressure on people to have it who don't want to have it. Nobody is telling YOU not to have it, but you are telling ME I should be having it. That sort of thing.

I have seen several threads, both on this board and AIBU, regarding people who are being bombarded with anti-vaxx rhetoric from friends or relatives. They are told to ignore them, or block them.
Then you have people who have loved ones who do not want the vaccine for whatever reason (and do not convince others not to either), that get told to then bombard them with pro-vaccine stuff and to tell them how selfish they are etc. Also, I was told that GPs will be following up people who have not booked their vaccine. I get that this may be because some people just do not know how to book.... but if someone is adamant they don't want it, it is going to be borderline harassment.