What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

Recently debated by MPs who where overwhelmingly not in favour of them (watch the debate via link)

Interesting that MPs raised the same issues I was insulted on this thread for raising. They also don’t agree with those not wanting this particular vaccine being labelled anti vaccine.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/569957

*were

@bumbleymummy

A bit silly. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective. Proof of immunity would make more sense.

We simply don't know enough about how the immunity works. We do know that vaccines prevent transmission (if you have the vaccine and catch it anyway) and serious illness (ditto). So, no, it's not silly.

A recent study (preprint) found the same about immunity after infection.

“
The study also found that rate of positive PCR tests with or without symptoms were lower after vaccination and previous infection, suggesting that both vaccination and previous infection are likely to reduce onward transmission, and even when people did get infected after a previous infection there was evidence that the amount of virus present was reduced, making transmission less likely.”

So yes, silly to restrict it to people who have had the vaccine when millions are immune after natural infection.

Sorry, didn’t include link to study:

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.09.21253218v1

I support vaccinations and I think they're great tool for fighting diseases but vaccine passport? This sh*t is scary. Look at the newest Police Bill, we're getting into some grey area here and government is slowly increasing its power. I don't want to wake up one day in another N.Korea or Gilead.

@LilaJunior

I support vaccinations and I think they're great tool for fighting diseases but vaccine passport? This sh*t is scary. Look at the newest Police Bill, we're getting into some grey area here and government is slowly increasing its power. I don't want to wake up one day in another N.Korea or Gilead.

I think many Mumsnet posters would be happy to live in Gilead and would still be calling people “anti vaxxer conspiracy theorists” as they are made into Handmaids.

I’d be happy with any form of vaccine passport if it means I can travel to see my family. I’ve had one vaccine at the second is at the end of May. I don’t care what system is introduced so long as I can travel.

@LilaJunior

I support vaccinations and I think they're great tool for fighting diseases but vaccine passport? This sh*t is scary. Look at the newest Police Bill, we're getting into some grey area here and government is slowly increasing its power. I don't want to wake up one day in another N.Korea or Gilead.

Early on in the pandemic, anyone saying vaccine passports would be a thing were labelled conspiracy theorists. Now people are begging for them. It is frightening. I do not want to live in this world anymore.

@Parker231

But that's very short-sighted. Until the pandemic is managed in all countries the safest thing is to quarantine or to present negative covid test or antibodies test. How exactly vaccine passport protects us from catching and spreading it? It's not only about your right to travel but about curbing pandemic worldwide and while vaccination helps massively it still won't reduce transmission completely.

We don’t know yet what is and isn’t shortsighted. The EU announcement today about Covid passports only relates to EU member states. There is no information yet about travelling from a non EU country.

Even the unvaccinated will have some protection in the form of their T-cell immunity if they have had the virus. That makes it a hell of a lot more people with immunity than we are being told.

The EU travel certificate includes people who have tested negative or have recently recovered from the virus - so not just the vaccinated.

@LilQueenie

Even the unvaccinated will have some protection in the form of their T-cell immunity if they have had the virus. That makes it a hell of a lot more people with immunity than we are being told.

A few million people have had it. UK population is 60 million. A few does not equal "hell of a lot". Maybe 10%.

Over 4 million recorded. Around 80% of cases are mild/asymptomatic so many of those may not have been tested and recorded.

@bumbleymummy

Agree. I'm a key worker and have been working throughout the whole pandemic. I'm pretty sure that I've been exposed to covid thousands of times, so it would be great to check if I have antibodies instead of wasting the vaccine that could go to someone vulnerable or without immunity. Imagine if we could start massive testing for antibodies as we do for covid now.

[quote LilaJunior]@bumbleymummy

Agree. I'm a key worker and have been working throughout the whole pandemic. I'm pretty sure that I've been exposed to covid thousands of times, so it would be great to check if I have antibodies instead of wasting the vaccine that could go to someone vulnerable or without immunity. Imagine if we could start massive testing for antibodies as we do for covid now.[/quote]
I wish we could! I really do wonder what percentage of children are already immune given how much they have been mingling in schools compared to the rest of us and that they usually have it very mildly!

ONS infection survey February 21.

15.3% in England testing positive due to antibodies from previous infection.

There will also be those with T cell immunity.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodydatafortheuk/3february2021

@LilaJunior
Depending on your job and area you may be eligible www.gov.uk/register-coronavirus-antibody-test

But the people who have been vaccinated so far have no proof? Not told to ‘hang on’ to their proof. All you get is a little piece of card, that could be easily forged.

@Suzi888

But the people who have been vaccinated so far have no proof? Not told to ‘hang on’ to their proof. All you get is a little piece of card, that could be easily forged.

Apparently it’s recorded on a database so could easily be accessed if proof is required.

@reformedcharacters by P&O cruise line? Or a concert venue?

Suzi888

Vaccine passports have not yet been introduced they are being reviewed by the government.

The situation with P&O as I understand from the news is that they are to offer some cruises for the fully vaccinated this summer I don’t know how they plan to obtain proof from passengers, maybe check their website?

@reformedcharacters won’t be going on a cruise or any holidays this year! Too risky. But just curious.
When you get a chicken pox vaccine or yellow fever, you get a typed sheet with labels showing the batch numbers and signed by the nurse (at least DD did). I guess the NHS just doesn’t have time, maybe they’ll revisit that or maybe vaccine passports just won’t become ‘a thing’. Guess we shall see!

I believe a lot more people have had Covid than have tested positive for Covid. I am pretty sure our whole family and extended family have had Covid yet only MIL has had a test to say she has had Covid.
Loads of people I know went down with what everyone now believes was Covid but at the time dismissed it as dreadful flu with a worse unending cough

I am struggling to think of one person I know who hasn’t either tested positive or had the dreadful illness before testing was available.