What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

@bumbleymummy I have been thinking to get an antibody test. Had covid last March, untested like lots of people back then. Apparently if you work for the NHS[I dont] you can get it for free. Else you have to pay £30?

@CrunchyCarrot Thank you. I thought I hadnt probably missed data somewhere.

I have told people and NHS that I am going to wait until Sept to possibly or probably have the vaccine then, when more details about it all are known.

With all of it, I am surprised that so many details are still not known. It has been a full year now, and the world still seems very in the dark about it all.
Sometimes, people say that A type blood groups are the most vulnerable. Surely, even that simple thing, should be well known by now?

Sometimes, people say that A type blood groups are the most vulnerable. Surely, even that simple thing, should be well known by now?

I'm not sure whether that's just an urban myth! I am type A and had Covid asymptomatically. Unfortunately this type of 'information' just makes one more anxious, if anything, as there's nothing you can do about it! The main thing I was and still am doing is taking Vitamin D3, along with a bunch of other vits/minerals.

But does anyone yet know how long the effects of a covid vaccination last? 3 months? 6? 9?
And do the effects wane, so say full effect now, no effect this August?
Or have I missed some information and data somewhere

We as a family had it in December 2019 (we think) and through work some of us were mixing with people who did have Covid in February and whilst the whole work team were put into isolation, subsequently all bar our family members tested positive for Covid so I think it definitely lasts over a year.
I think it is T cell immunity we need to be looking at not just antibodies

Yes.
I am hoping the immunity lasts a life time!

Isn’t that why older people were less likely to be ill with swine flu back in 2009? They had residual immunity from a similar strain that had circulated decades before. It would be nice if this turned out to be similar and immunity lasts for years. 😊

Lots of studies have shown existing T-Cell immunity in people with no known exposure to COVID. It is possible it comes from earlier SARS exposure.

Also T-cell immunity to SARS 1 was found as late as 17 years after infection.

There is lots we don't know about COVID and immunity at the moment. The idea that the vaccine will give people immunity that lasts but natural infection wanes or gives no immunity is preposterous to say the least. Don't know how the scientists are getting away with that one!

The idea that the vaccine will give people immunity that lasts but natural infection wanes or gives no immunity is preposterous to say the least.

It is a bit silly but I don’t think all scientists are saying this. There are quite a few studies being done into immunity from natural infection. It was actually the persistence of antibodies after natural infection that gave scientists confidence that a vaccine could work.

@bumbleymummy

The idea that the vaccine will give people immunity that lasts but natural infection wanes or gives no immunity is preposterous to say the least.

It is a bit silly but I don’t think all scientists are saying this. There are quite a few studies being done into immunity from natural infection. It was actually the persistence of antibodies after natural infection that gave scientists confidence that a vaccine could work.

No, not all. But I have seen it repeated (and possibly misunderstood) by people encouraging people that have already had and recovered from COVID to get the vaccine too.

Yes, I think that it’s easier to just vaccinate everyone in a group rather than testing for immunity but people have interpreted this as natural immunity not being ‘as good’. Even though we know more about natural immunity than vaccine immunity at the moment!

I'm not sure whether that's just an urban myth! I am type A and had Covid asymptomatically. Unfortunately this type of 'information' just makes one more anxious, if anything, as there's nothing you can do about it! The main thing I was and still am doing is taking Vitamin D3, along with a bunch of other vits/minerals.

There have been studies done which have shown that Type A blood is the most vulnerable and Type O the least. It isn't just an urban myth.
But as you say, there's nowt you can do about it and thinking "Great, I'm type O, I can do what I like" is not a good idea!

@icdtap

I'm not sure whether that's just an urban myth! I am type A and had Covid asymptomatically. Unfortunately this type of 'information' just makes one more anxious, if anything, as there's nothing you can do about it! The main thing I was and still am doing is taking Vitamin D3, along with a bunch of other vits/minerals.

There have been studies done which have shown that Type A blood is the most vulnerable and Type O the least. It isn't just an urban myth.
But as you say, there's nowt you can do about it and thinking "Great, I'm type O, I can do what I like" is not a good idea!

I believe this was investigated and disproved.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7354354/

'Blood type was not associated with risk of intubation or death in patients with COVID-19. Patients with blood types B and AB who received a test were more likely to test positive and blood type O was less likely to test positive. Rh+ patients were more likely to test positive.'

I am type A blood group. This information was about a year ago. But then what can you do about it?

I’d like to see if they have found anything new as well - why are certain people more likely to be asymptotic? What have they had that fought the infection so well? A bit like small pox/chicken pox?

I am type A and I think the research was that type A’s are more susceptible to colds and flu type illnesses (someone only has to sneeze in the next street and I go down with a cold)
Otoh I think it is type O’s who have an almost inbuilt immunity to colds etc but suffer more with food poisoning and stomach issues.
I can pretty much eat anything and I have never had a problem. I have a cast iron stomach

Haven’t RTFT but in answer to your question OP, some of the vaccine refusers will get Covid, some will become seriously ill and some will die.

And some will be ok because they either won’t get Covid or they have already had it.

@Bythemillpond

And some will be ok because they either won’t get Covid or they have already had it.

Most will be OK, statistically.

I’d like to see if they have found anything new as well - why are certain people more likely to be asymptotic? What have they had that fought the infection so well? A bit like small pox/chicken pox?

Well I can only speak for myself, I would not consider myself well or healthy in any respect as I have autoimmunity (Hashimoto's) and many allergies and histamine intolerance that is the bane of my life on a daily basis. I thought for sure if I catch Covid I'm a goner. Yet my immune system clearly bashed it over the head very fast. My current thinking is because my immune system is very activated and so responded quickly. But there must be more to it than that, and I don't think everyone with autoimmunity would be so fortunate.

I do know from papers I've read that you need both a good innate immune response (as SARS-COV-2 is pretty good at evading the innate immune system) followed by a good T cell response in order to fight it off well, or not develop symptoms. If you are deficient in Type I or Type III Interferons (they are part of the innate response) then you can be toast. Also lacking a good T cell response means your poor innate system keeps trying to protect you only that goes horribly wrong as you produce far too many cytokines.

It's all very complex and fascinating.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421000076

I think many of those who have refused will ultimately take it up. Not all obviously but many. My mother - an ardent anti vaxxer - crumbled the minute we pointed out she may not be able to go on a cruise again if she didn't.

@Dongdingdong

Haven’t RTFT but in answer to your question OP, some of the vaccine refusers will get Covid, some will become seriously ill and some will die.

And some will catch it and infect others, some of whom will become seriously ill and some will die.

@dividedwefall new study:

oxfordbrc.nihr.ac.uk/two-doses-of-vaccine-offer-same-protection-from-covid-as-prior-infection-study-finds/

“ Two doses of either the Pfizer or Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine offer similar protection against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection to that coming from natural immunity after infection, an ongoing study of healthcare workers has found.”

“ By using viral sequencing, the Oxford team found that there was no evidence that either vaccine or natural infection provided less protection against the new B.1.1.7 “Kent” strain of the virus.

The study also found that rate of positive PCR tests with or without symptoms were lower after vaccination and previous infection, suggesting that both vaccination and previous infection are likely to reduce onward transmission, and even when people did get infected after a previous infection there was evidence that the amount of virus present was reduced, making transmission less likely.”

Pre-print but interesting given what we were just talking about :)

@Nith

A hefty proportion of the unvaccinated will get Covid, those who survive will have some immunity, so numbers will be manageable.

Erm, my understanding was that the vaccine doesn't actually prevent you catching covid, it simply allegedly greatly reduces the risk of you having it severely

I’d like to see if they have found anything new as well - why are certain people more likely to be asymptotic? What have they had that fought the infection so well? A bit like small pox/chicken pox

I think it is more to do with dna. Dh, myself, adult dd, ds and Mil all got Covid. Dd and ds who are slim with no underlying health conditions and myself who is old and obese all went down with it hugely. Bed bound for at least a week and suffered greatly with all the symptoms for at least 3 weeks. Both ds and myself are still not right 15 months later. Our energy levels are really down and neither of us is back to normal. Compared to Dh who is obese and has diabetes, cancer and doesn’t have a vital organ that fights off infection and his mother who is nearly 100 and in a care home with Alzheimer’s got it and breezed through it.
Dh had an annoying cough and felt a little off for 1 or 2 days but then started to get better and mil who tested positive during the first lockdown who we were told was running a temperature and felt a little chilly and had a slight cough one day but was well and fine the next. It didn’t seem to affect them as greatly

I think it is about dna how Covid affects you (maybe worse the fatter you are). We read how whole families have many deaths but other families hardly get ill.

In bbc news today
“ P&O Cruises has said that anyone wanting to take its cruises around the British Isles this summer will need to be vaccinated first.
Travellers will have to prove that they have had two coronavirus jabs to take the trips which depart from June.”

Yes I know if you don’t care about travelling it won’t affect you ... but this proofs that companies can request the vaccines if they want to

P&O Cruises has said that anyone wanting to take its cruises around the British Isles this summer will need to be vaccinated first.
Travellers will have to prove that they have had two coronavirus jabs to take the trips which depart from June

Truly heartbroken that I cannot go cruising😂

After months of being stuck at home I would think the prospect of being stuck on a ship isn’t the most appealing

A bit silly. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective. Proof of immunity would make more sense.