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Original poster

What happens about the unvaccinated ?

896 replies

vera99 · 08/03/2021 03:06

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

OP posts:
ChameleonClara · 14/03/2021 13:14

So what is YOUR answer to protecting vulnerable people from the unvaccinated?

I support a comprehensive public health approach.

Clearly the government is happy for the hard-of-thinking to blame vaccine refusers (very low numbers in UK, thankfully, so barely worth worrying about when compared to the 10 MILLION children not vaccinated) for the increased cases that will come in autumn - in reality it is the same problems we have had from the start that will cause the ongoing issues - ineffectve test & trace, no funding to isolate, no mitigation in schools, no border controls etc. etc. etc.

The government is failing us all and happy to let you blame the unvaccinated instead of those catually responsible.

Kazzyhoward · 14/03/2021 14:40

@ChameleonClara

So what is YOUR answer to protecting vulnerable people from the unvaccinated?

I support a comprehensive public health approach.

Clearly the government is happy for the hard-of-thinking to blame vaccine refusers (very low numbers in UK, thankfully, so barely worth worrying about when compared to the 10 MILLION children not vaccinated) for the increased cases that will come in autumn - in reality it is the same problems we have had from the start that will cause the ongoing issues - ineffectve test & trace, no funding to isolate, no mitigation in schools, no border controls etc. etc. etc.

The government is failing us all and happy to let you blame the unvaccinated instead of those catually responsible.

Isle of Man had border controls, test and trace, etc., but one single infected person has now led to 780 "active" cases in just 4 weeks, despite lockdown for the last two weeks, case numbers are still rising at approx 70-80 per day.

Border controls and test and trace aren't the answer that people seem to they they are. Test and trace doesn't work quick enough to stop infections spreading - it was never going to work as people are infectious before they get symptoms. It's closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. Border controls are limited in effectiveness when you actually need staff on ferries/airplanes etc who can't be expected to fully quarantine/isolate when not at work (like the IOM ferry worker).

ReasonableMum · 14/03/2021 16:53

@Kazzyhoward

But these are just active cases, I think it would be better to compare that with the number of deaths/hospitalisations. Also border controls and track and trace would work much better with majority vaccinated anyway.

Wellbythebloodyhell · 14/03/2021 19:33

Prison camps. It seems a lot of people don't want to mix with the "unclean"

Well yes let's round them all up, have the word dirty branded on their forehead, and ship them off to work down the mines forever more where they can no longer mix with the "clean " folk.
I say this in jest obviously, but its scary to think some may actually agree with this Confused what a lovely world we now live in Sad

Kazzyhoward · 14/03/2021 19:40

@Wellbythebloodyhell

Prison camps. It seems a lot of people don't want to mix with the "unclean"

Well yes let's round them all up, have the word dirty branded on their forehead, and ship them off to work down the mines forever more where they can no longer mix with the "clean " folk.
I say this in jest obviously, but its scary to think some may actually agree with this Confused what a lovely world we now live in Sad

Well, the "unclean" perhaps should have paid more attention to following rules, social distancing, etc., and yes, having the vaccine.

Like the anti-maskers - the least they could do would be to maintain the 2 metre social distancing, but they can't even do that! Then they whinge that others try to avoid them as being "unclean" - what do they expect??

reformedcharacters · 14/03/2021 19:43

Wellbythebloodyhell

And your theory has been proven in record time...

Wellbythebloodyhell · 14/03/2021 19:49

@reformedcharacters

Wellbythebloodyhell

And your theory has been proven in record time...

Frightening! Shock
Hearwego · 14/03/2021 19:56

Some countries will certainly make it compulsory to enter their borders if you’ve had the vaccine. It’s their criteria, that’s their choice.
I’d guess some employers will ask soon on their application process too, perhaps starting with the public sector.

Parker231 · 14/03/2021 20:08

Similar to the yellow fever certificate I have to travel to those countries requiring it.

DenisetheMenace · 14/03/2021 20:15

I certainly don’t want people in camps. I do wish they would vaccinate though, for their sakes.
I’ll very likely be ok, as will my nearest and dearest, because we have all been/will be vaccinated.
If I sit next to an unvaccinated person in a theatre, it statistically probably won’t be a problem for me but it may be for them if their other neighbouring theatre goer is also unvaccinated and asymptomatic.

The put them in camps idea is way beyond most people. Lots do just worry about other people who are ill-advised and exposing themselves to unnecessary danger.

drspouse · 14/03/2021 20:23

@OnlyFoolsnMothers I wouldn't have let my DCs play with children I knew to be unvaccinated. One has epilepsy and his fits are more likely if unwell.
My choice, just like it's yours to be antisocial in a different way.

Wellbythebloodyhell · 14/03/2021 21:05

[quote drspouse]@OnlyFoolsnMothers I wouldn't have let my DCs play with children I knew to be unvaccinated. One has epilepsy and his fits are more likely if unwell.
My choice, just like it's yours to be antisocial in a different way.[/quote]
Is this a routine question you ask other parents before you're children interact? Shock

bumbleymummy · 14/03/2021 21:07

@Hearwego

Some countries will certainly make it compulsory to enter their borders if you’ve had the vaccine. It’s their criteria, that’s their choice. I’d guess some employers will ask soon on their application process too, perhaps starting with the public sector.
It would be a bit short sighted. The vaccine will probably become an annual thing for the more vulnerable. like the flu vaccine is, but I doubt everyone will have to/want to get it every year.
lightand · 14/03/2021 21:25

I was wondering today, will everyone be happy to be vaccinated maybe twice a year, every year until they die?
I cant see it myself. I agree @bumbleymummy.
Plus people will start to question
a. how long will my immunity last? Who knows. Maybe different times for everyone.
b. If young, they may still get covid so think, well what is the point of getting the vaccine, even if I get it, I am unlikely statistically to suffer badly anyway
c. I can still pass the virus on to other people.

Hearwego · 14/03/2021 21:53

I doubt the whole population would get vaccinated perhaps twice a year for the rest of their lives..
Financially and logistically I’d imagine this would be very difficult for many reasons...

drspouse · 14/03/2021 23:35

@Wellbythebloodyhell I know a few openly non vaccinating families and some others I've known since babies so I know they have all been vaccinated. So I said "knowingly".

Bythemillpond · 15/03/2021 00:26

Well, the "unclean" perhaps should have paid more attention to following rules, social distancing, etc., and yes, having the vaccine

Why does only having the vaccine make you “clean” All those that have had Covid and don’t need/want or are able to have the vaccine, where do these people fall in all of this.

If Mumsnet gives a pointer into how the country feels then I worry for its future. From where I am standing it is beginning to look completely fucked up

Firstly we had posts about which neighbours to call the police on because they thought that people weren’t adhering by the rules Even this last few weeks there has been a mumsnetter who was spending time in their converted garage on their land and neighbours calling the police on them and the poster trying to convince the police they hadn’t done anything wrong.

Now there has been more than one post on sending those that don’t have the vaccine to camps or referring to those that don’t choose to vaccinate as being “unclean”. The sheer glee about Covid passports and how the “unclean” won’t be able to work or go out or go on holiday I think speaks volumes

I must admit having had close family who lived through being told they were “unclean” not being able to work and if they hadn’t escaped would have most likely have ended up being sent to the camps then I worry about our future

DenisetheMenace · 15/03/2021 01:21

I’ve no problem at all with an annual Covid vaccine.

Parker231 · 15/03/2021 06:44

I’ve no problem with having an annual vaccination. It would become part of normal life - dental check up every six months, annual doctors check up and then annual Covid vaccination.

CrunchyCarrot · 15/03/2021 06:48

@Bythemillpond All those that have had Covid and don’t need/want or are able to have the vaccine, where do these people fall in all of this.

I find myself in this category now. I had asymptomatic Covid and still have antibodies to the spike protein 8 months on (I got tested as my DP had Covid). As I have autoimmunity and various allergies I wasn't keen on having the vaccine as I don't want to trigger any more problems with my health. Finding out I have antibodies to SARS-COV-2 is amazing. I have no intention now of having the vaccine as I don't want the PEG or Polysorbate-80 that these contain, and could be problematic for me.

I can see the problem with this, however, in terms of 'proof' that you are immune, as antibodies can wane (which doesn't mean you are no longer immune as you will likely still have memory T cells to the virus). But it's not too effective for passport control! As I am house bound it really doesn't affect me but my DP will get vaccinated as he travels regularly for work, even though he too has antibodies. If you are vaccinated at least you have 'proof' of some kind, even though it's not 100% effective.

lightand · 15/03/2021 07:27

But does anyone yet know how long the effects of a covid vaccination last? 3 months? 6? 9?
And do the effects wane, so say full effect now, no effect this August?
Or have I missed some information and data somewhere?

bumbleymummy · 15/03/2021 07:38

[quote drspouse]@Wellbythebloodyhell I know a few openly non vaccinating families and some others I've known since babies so I know they have all been vaccinated. So I said "knowingly".[/quote]
So you think that your vaccinated children aren’t protected against the diseases you vaccinated them against?

bumbleymummy · 15/03/2021 07:41

[quote CrunchyCarrot]**@Bythemillpond* All those that have had Covid and don’t need/want or are able to have the vaccine, where do these people fall in all of this.*

I find myself in this category now. I had asymptomatic Covid and still have antibodies to the spike protein 8 months on (I got tested as my DP had Covid). As I have autoimmunity and various allergies I wasn't keen on having the vaccine as I don't want to trigger any more problems with my health. Finding out I have antibodies to SARS-COV-2 is amazing. I have no intention now of having the vaccine as I don't want the PEG or Polysorbate-80 that these contain, and could be problematic for me.

I can see the problem with this, however, in terms of 'proof' that you are immune, as antibodies can wane (which doesn't mean you are no longer immune as you will likely still have memory T cells to the virus). But it's not too effective for passport control! As I am house bound it really doesn't affect me but my DP will get vaccinated as he travels regularly for work, even though he too has antibodies. If you are vaccinated at least you have 'proof' of some kind, even though it's not 100% effective.[/quote]
This is why antibody tests should also be accepted. Proof of immunity makes more sense than proof of a vaccine that isn’t 100% effective.

CrunchyCarrot · 15/03/2021 07:47

@lightand

But does anyone yet know how long the effects of a covid vaccination last? 3 months? 6? 9? And do the effects wane, so say full effect now, no effect this August? Or have I missed some information and data somewhere?
We simply don't know. My inclination is to think vaccination will be effective for far longer than a few months, but it's just a guess. The main problem will be if the virus spike protein changes enough to make the vaccine not as effective. Then you'd need a booster dose. Depends on how fast that happens, if it does.
HBGKC · 15/03/2021 07:51

@Bythemillpond yes I agree, the rhetoric now developing is frightening.
From the article about Denmark's proposed 'Epidemic Law':

"Some areas in the proposed law that have raised eyebrows include:
• People infected with dangerous diseases can be forcibly given medical examination, hospitalised, treated and placed in isolation.
• The Danish Health Authority would be able to define groups of people who must be vaccinated in order to contain and eliminate a dangerous disease.
• People who refuse the above can – in some situations – be coerced through physical detainment, with police allowed to assist."