What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

@TheKeatingFive

They’re prepared to contract the disease itself and gain immunity that way.

Risking requiring hospital admission and/or infecting the vulnerable while they do so.

Getting the vaccine would be much more helpful.

It’s a very small risk of hospitalisation for lower risk groups. Over 80% of cases are mild/asymptomatic. We’ve vaccinated the vulnerable groups that account for the vast majority of hospitalisations/deaths.

@TheKeatingFive

If the doesn’t protect the elderly and vulnerable from infection and needed a hospital bed what’s the point in it?

I presume you meant to add the word vaccine.

I’m talking about those who cannot he vaccinated. The point has come up before. I know the anti vax crew don’t like acknowledging their existence, but it is an unfortunate fact. It’s herd immunity that will protect these people. We all have a role to play in creating that.

Those same people can’t get the flu vaccine every year but we don’t vaccinate everyone against flu for ‘herd immunity’ for them. Unvaccinated people who are infected and recover are also contributing to herd immunity. That’s something the ‘forced vaxxers’ don’t want to acknowledge.

Those who can’t be vaccinated are at risk from many other things but we have never forced the rest of the population to protect them.

If we’re going down that road every other vaccine must be mandated.

What if the tables were turned and those who can’t vaccinate are forced away from the rest of society?

Think things through.

It’s a very small risk of hospitalisation for lower risk groups. Over 80% of cases are mild/asymptomatic.

Granted, but it’s still a risk

We’ve vaccinated the vulnerable groups that account for the vast majority of hospitalisations/deaths

But not the ones that can’t be vaxxed. And there will be some it doesn’t work for.

Ask any medical professional if it’s more helpful to them for you to a) get vaxxed or b) get Covid. I bet there won’t be much variation in their answers.

we have never forced the rest of the population to protect them.

We’ve never locked the population down for anything else either. Why do you think that is?

Unvaccinated people who are infected and recover are also contributing to herd immunity.

Putting pressure on the health service and putting others in danger while they’re at it.

Like I say, ask a medic which approach they think is better?

@Bythemillpond

IF people are not taking the vaccine then yes, they are acting selfishly. Unless they are prepared to isolate until they are ready

What if they have already had Covid. They are probably more safe than those who have had the vaccine

About 4 million people are supposed to have had covid. Yes, they seem to be overlooked as a group, when discussing having or not having the vaccine.

@TheKeatingFive

we have never forced the rest of the population to protect them.

We’ve never locked the population down for anything else either. Why do you think that is?

Yes that’s a question you might well ask....

Yes, there will be several that it doesn’t work for - as I said upthread, it isn’t 100% effective, which is why people who can’t have the vaccine are taking a risk. Just as they do every year for other illnesses.

The lockdown was to prevent the nhs being overwhelmed. You know that right? It wasn’t about preventing anyone from every getting ill.

@bumbleymummy

Equally you could say that people who don’t want to be vaccinated are taking risks that the ones who are vaccinated aren’t prepared to take. They’re prepared to contract the disease itself and gain immunity that way. Obviously some high risk people are not happy taking that risk. Low risk people are.

Vaccinating the more vulnerable so that the nhs isn’t overwhelmed is certainly a way out of this. Vaccinating everyone is not necessary to ease restrictions though. For the vast majority of people this is a mild or asymptomatic illness and recovery from natural infection also confers immunity. The goal of lockdown was not to prevent anyone from ever getting sick. It was to prevent the nhs from being overwhelmed. By vaccinating the people most likely to be hospitalised we’ve done that.

So why are teachers and Uni staff still howling at the thought of having to go back to work in rooms full of pupils/students - most of the staff will either be younger (low risk) or vaccinated (if older/vulnerable).

The lockdown was to prevent the nhs being overwhelmed. You know that right?

Naturally. Low take up and imperfect vaccines will still risk overwhelming.

@TheKeatingFive

Unvaccinated people who are infected and recover are also contributing to herd immunity.

Putting pressure on the health service and putting others in danger while they’re at it.

Like I say, ask a medic which approach they think is better?

Not if they’re in the 80% with mild/asymptomatic illness.

@lightand that’s only recorded cases. We weren’t recording community cases for the first few months and a large proportion of people with no/mild symptoms wouldn’t have been tested.

@TheKeatingFive

The lockdown was to prevent the nhs being overwhelmed. You know that right?

Naturally. Low take up and imperfect vaccines will still risk overwhelming.

Why do you think that? Do you think the JCVI got it wrong? They prioritised vaccinating the groups that were most likely to be hospitalised/killed by the virus.

All pandemics end. The problem with this one is that it seems locking down has likely artificially prolonged it.

Cases will fall naturally, vaccine or no vaccine. It will end naturally, vaccine or no vaccine.

So all this blame game on people who don't want an mRNA or DNA vaccine is misplaced. Look to the scientists and governments around the world that ignored their decades old pandemic plans and decided to treat the whole thing as a giant social and psychology experiment.

Well I see that a complaint has been filed with Hague Tribunal against the Israeli government, which is basically conducting medical experiments on Israeli citizens, through Pfizer. I think many people are going to become very familiar with the Nuremberg code over the next few years. All those people who are annoyed that some people won't take an experimental vaccine are just the type Dr Mengele would be proud of. I know what side of history I will be on.

@whatdidijustread

Well I see that a complaint has been filed with Hague Tribunal against the Israeli government, which is basically conducting medical experiments on Israeli citizens, through Pfizer. I think many people are going to become very familiar with the Nuremberg code over the next few years. All those people who are annoyed that some people won't take an experimental vaccine are just the type Dr Mengele would be proud of. I know what side of history I will be on.

I honestly didn’t think attitudes like this still existed it’s horrifying isn’t it.

@whatdidijustread

Well I see that a complaint has been filed with Hague Tribunal against the Israeli government, which is basically conducting medical experiments on Israeli citizens, through Pfizer. I think many people are going to become very familiar with the Nuremberg code over the next few years. All those people who are annoyed that some people won't take an experimental vaccine are just the type Dr Mengele would be proud of. I know what side of history I will be on.

In your opinion, many don’t agree with you, but we all are entitled to an opinion. I find your analogy quite offensive and inappropriate towards the victims of the crimes perpetrated by the Nazis

Honestly I have been so shocked since all this began at how some people can treat others, foaming at the mouth almost as they tell them to be a good citizen and get them needles in your arms. I think taking part in something like this is completely up to the individual. Most shocking is how many people don't even think about it and they just follow orders so to speak and then shout at everyone else to follow orders too. Anyway, all that said, I have learnt quite alot about myself over the last year and I absolutely refuse to treat people like dirty germs even if they treat me like one.

Having had both Covid & the vaccine, because ‘the scientists still recommend it’ I have to say there seems to be a lack of detail why they still recommend the vaccine in those circumstances - especially as natural immunity seems, in the overwhelming majority of cases, to be lasting immunity so far.

As for everybody having the vax to stop mutations. Good luck with vaxxing the whole of that 8 billion then.

I find forced/coerced medical treatment offensive to the victims of the holocaust but a shocking amount of posters on this thread appear to support.

@reformedcharacters

I find forced/coerced medical treatment offensive to the victims of the holocaust but a shocking amount of posters on this thread appear to support.

Exactly, I have been so shocked at how many people think it acceptable.

@whatdidijustread

Well I see that a complaint has been filed with Hague Tribunal against the Israeli government, which is basically conducting medical experiments on Israeli citizens, through Pfizer. I think many people are going to become very familiar with the Nuremberg code over the next few years. All those people who are annoyed that some people won't take an experimental vaccine are just the type Dr Mengele would be proud of. I know what side of history I will be on.

I read about this. The case has been accepted by the tribunal which I am pleased but surprised about.

I just can't believe what has been happening in Israel. No jab - no life. I don't understand it at all.

@MummyPop00

Having had both Covid & the vaccine, because ‘the scientists still recommend it’ I have to say there seems to be a lack of detail why they still recommend the vaccine in those circumstances - especially as natural immunity seems, in the overwhelming majority of cases, to be lasting immunity so far.

As for everybody having the vax to stop mutations. Good luck with vaxxing the whole of that 8 billion then.

I think it’s just logistics. It’s easier to invite everyone in each group for a vaccine rather than try to filter out those that already gave immunity.

have*

ChameleonClara

Vaccines alone won't get us out of this anyway, whatever the take-up. I think the really selfish people are the ones who waste energy focusing on the wrong problems and ognoring the real issues = such as dreadful sick pay in the country meaning the low pay can't isolate. The UK has very high levels of vaccine take up. Isn't going to solve the problems we have coming.“

I agree, failing to properly compensate people who until now have been told to isolate was a stupid, short sighted policy.

This will be less of an issue though as everyone who can have a vaccine does.
Anyone who refuses a vaccine without health grounds can’t expect to be paid to stay at home. Choices have consequences.