What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

@Parker231

reform - if we all took that selfish attitude, Covid cases and deaths would continue.

What selfish attitude are you referring to?

Is it not selfish to have locked up young people for a year to protect NHS being overwhelmed by the elderly and vulnerable? Affecting their education and futures and now to tell them that we are taking away their rights and freedoms to protect those same people from something that they themselves are at minute risk from? They’re young and healthy enough to choose to wait for the long term data if they do wish. They have sacrificed enough.

@TheKeatingFive

Why is it selfish to want to wait?

Because you’re expecting others to take all the risks so your life can get back to normal.

Unless you are planning to isolate yourself, until you’re ready, ensuring that even though you aren’t getting the vaccine, you’re not providing opportunities for the virus to mutate, you aren’t risking the lives of those who can’t be vaxxed and you prevent putting pressure on the hospital system by getting ill yourself.

Are you?

Don’t be ridiculous. The aim isn’t to prevent anyone from ever getting ill. Low risk people having the virus and recovering are not a problem. They are also contributing to herd immunity.

Low risk people having the virus and recovering are not a problem.

High risk people, who can’t have the vaccine or for whom the vaccine won’t work well on are the problem.

That’s why high levels of vaccine uptake are needed - to create a level of herd immunity to protect them.

The alternative of course is for the wait and see brigade to isolate themselves so there is no danger of them making others seriously ill. I see no appetite for that among them however.

The vast majority of people are selfish and will be getting vaccinated because they think it will protect them and their close family and allow them to go out and about again.

The anti vax brigade have always been inherently selfish because they want all the benefits of mass vaccination, without taking any risks themselves.

They’ve been facilitated so far, but it’s going to get much more challenging for them now. We need high uptake of vaccines to create good enough herd immunity to end lockdown for good. If that looks threatened by those refusing to get it, there will be considerable anger and a totally understandable desire of businesses to protect themselves from the refuseniks by restricting their access.

Vaccines alone won't get us out of this anyway, whatever the take-up. I think the really selfish people are the ones who waste energy focusing on the wrong problems and ognoring the real issues = such as dreadful sick pay in the country meaning the low pay can't isolate. The UK has very high levels of vaccine take up. Isn't going to solve the problems we have coming.

@TheKeatingFive

The vast majority of people are selfish and will be getting vaccinated because they think it will protect them and their close family and allow them to go out and about again.

The anti vax brigade have always been inherently selfish because they want all the benefits of mass vaccination, without taking any risks themselves.

They’ve been facilitated so far, but it’s going to get much more challenging for them now. We need high uptake of vaccines to create good enough herd immunity to end lockdown for good. If that looks threatened by those refusing to get it, there will be considerable anger and a totally understandable desire of businesses to protect themselves from the refuseniks by restricting their access.

Refuseniks!! Do you know the meaning of where that term originated? This way of thinkng and treating people is not good. You must be aware of history no?

Refuseniks!! Do you know the meaning of where that term originated?

No, but I’m not wedded to it. Vaccine refusers then. If there was an edit function I would be happy to change it.

Vaccine refusers are people who will not take any vaccine.

Refusenik: an unofficial term for individuals—typically, but not exclusively, Soviet Jews—who were denied permission to emigrate, primarily to Israel, by the authorities of the Soviet Union and other countries of the Eastern bloc. courtesy of wiki

@TheKeatingFive

Low risk people having the virus and recovering are not a problem.

High risk people, who can’t have the vaccine or for whom the vaccine won’t work well on are the problem.

That’s why high levels of vaccine uptake are needed - to create a level of herd immunity to protect them.

The alternative of course is for the wait and see brigade to isolate themselves so there is no danger of them making others seriously ill. I see no appetite for that among them however.

Or for the few people who can’t be vaccinated to isolate themselves seeing as they’re the ones at risk. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective. There are always immune compromised people who have to make decisions about what risks they are prepared to take - even when it comes to being out and about each year during flu season. It’s up to them whether they want to go out and take the risk.

People who don’t want the vaccine aren’t relying on others to protect them. They’re happy to take their small risk with the virus and gain immunity that way. They are still contributing to herd immunity.

Or for the few people who can’t be vaccinated to isolate themselves seeing as they’re the ones at risk.

How is that fair? It’s not their fault. More crucially, we can’t identify which people the CV won’t work well on.

Vaccines aren’t 100% effective.

Which is precisely why we need very high take up.

People who don’t want the vaccine aren’t relying on others to protect them.

They are relying on others to facilitate opening up. If everyone took their approach, we’d be in lockdown for the foreseeable.

My friend is pregnant and would love to have it, but can’t due to the unknown risk to unborn baby. What do pregnant people and breast feeders do? Just hope as many take it up as possible and reduce the risk via herd immunity?

Those who chose not to be vaccinated (as opposed to those who medically shouldn’t) are benefiting from those who are vaccinated as it is already shown since the vaccination programme began case numbers and deaths are reducing. Good news for the efficiency of the vaccine.

Or for the few people who can’t be vaccinated to isolate themselves seeing as they’re the ones at risk.

Considering nearly half the deaths were in care home or hospitals, "shielding" didn't really work did it? They should have been in "safe" places being properly looked after. Those shielding or in care/health environments rely on others to take precautions not to catch and spread covid. Those with health conditions that make them vulnerable can't "shield" as they often have to attend regular GP/hospital appointments and hospital waiting rooms etc are, even now, hotbeds of infection as the staff/management don't seem to know how to organise them to be socially distanced, ventilated, etc.

@Jellyfishnchips

My friend is pregnant and would love to have it, but can’t due to the unknown risk to unborn baby. What do pregnant people and breast feeders do? Just hope as many take it up as possible and reduce the risk via herd immunity?

Breast feeders and pregnant people can have the vaccine. If they choose not to then yes, they will have to rely on others to have the vaccine, or shield themselves if they aren’t happy with the risk.

@TheKeatingFive

Or for the few people who can’t be vaccinated to isolate themselves seeing as they’re the ones at risk.

How is that fair? It’s not their fault. More crucially, we can’t identify which people the CV won’t work well on.

Vaccines aren’t 100% effective.

Which is precisely why we need very high take up.

People who don’t want the vaccine aren’t relying on others to protect them.

They are relying on others to facilitate opening up. If everyone took their approach, we’d be in lockdown for the foreseeable.

Don’t be silly. Do you really think we’d still be in lockdown indefinitely if there was no vaccine?

How is it fair to keep low risk people locked up when they have no problem with contracting the virus and contributing to herd immunity to protect the more vulnerable that way? There is no way for an unvaccinated vulnerable person to be risk free. It’s up to them to decide whether they want to take that risk. Just as they do every year for things like flu.

@Parker231

Those who chose not to be vaccinated (as opposed to those who medically shouldn’t) are benefiting from those who are vaccinated as it is already shown since the vaccination programme began case numbers and deaths are reducing. Good news for the efficiency of the vaccine.

And the hundreds of thousands of people who had the vaccine and recovered who are also contributing to herd immunity.

Do you really think we’d still be in lockdown indefinitely if there was no vaccine?

In the medium term, yes definitely. There clearly is no political appetite to let it rip and suck up those levels of deaths, impact on the nhs. Not the slightest bit silly to acknowledge that.

How is it fair to keep low risk people locked up when they have no problem with contracting the virus and contributing to herd immunity to protect the more vulnerable that way?

Because we’re only able to open up because of the risks others are taking that they won’t. Anyone of us could be hospitalised by Covid, no age group/health level is immune.

If you disagree that vaccines are our major ticket out of this (imperfect as they may be), I’d love to know what you think the actual answer is?

This fucking shitshow of a thread keeps bobbing up like a turd that won't flush.

Equally you could say that people who don’t want to be vaccinated are taking risks that the ones who are vaccinated aren’t prepared to take. They’re prepared to contract the disease itself and gain immunity that way. Obviously some high risk people are not happy taking that risk. Low risk people are.

Vaccinating the more vulnerable so that the nhs isn’t overwhelmed is certainly a way out of this. Vaccinating everyone is not necessary to ease restrictions though. For the vast majority of people this is a mild or asymptomatic illness and recovery from natural infection also confers immunity. The goal of lockdown was not to prevent anyone from ever getting sick. It was to prevent the nhs from being overwhelmed. By vaccinating the people most likely to be hospitalised we’ve done that.

Some* low risk people are.

@MaxNormal you can hide threads if you don’t want to see them.

@bumbleymummy this thread has the special distinction of someone on it having wished for my imminent death.
I probably should hide it, like we shouldn't look at bad car crash aftermaths.

They’re prepared to contract the disease itself and gain immunity that way.

Risking requiring hospital admission and/or infecting the vulnerable while they do so.

Getting the vaccine would be much more helpful.

If the doesn’t protect the elderly and vulnerable from infection and needed a hospital bed what’s the point in it? Isn’t that even less of an argument?

If the doesn’t protect the elderly and vulnerable from infection and needed a hospital bed what’s the point in it?

I presume you meant to add the word vaccine.

I’m talking about those who cannot he vaccinated. The point has come up before. I know the anti vax crew don’t like acknowledging their existence, but it is an unfortunate fact. It’s herd immunity that will protect these people. We all have a role to play in creating that.