What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

And despite the ‘precarious situation’ of life humans managed to survive and thrive even without vaccinations. We now have vaccines to protect the vulnerable who are most likely to get seriously ill. I’m not relying on anyone to keep me or my children safe. We’re incredibly low risk and people contracting the virus and recovering with immunity are also benefitting society.

You really don't understand vaccination at all do you? Vaccination has improved and saved more lives than any other public health intervention. That is a fact, so don't bother arguing.

When you look at all the vaccines we give to babies, you can see immediately how beneficial they are to those children and to everyone else. Vaccination is not about protecting the vulnerable. Unfortunately, very fit and healthy people can contract horrible diseases that can kill and or make us disabled.

6-in-1 vaccine which immunises against - diphtheria, hepatitis B, Hib (Haemophilus influenzae type b), polio, tetanus, whooping cough (pertussis)

Pneumococcal (PCV) vaccine

MenB vaccine

Rotavirus vaccine

These are just some of the childhood vaccinations given routinely in this country.

We now have Covid-19. I'm guessing you don't have anyone close to you who has died or become long-term sick from it. Well bully for you, we're not all so fortunate.

Anti-vaxxers like you should be banned from forums like this.

'We now have vaccines to protect the vulnerable who are most likely to get seriously ill.'

Apparently not.

Cancer patients 'lack same protection' after first jab www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56351084

@Druidlookingidiot I understand them very well thank you. Im also well aware of the vaccine schedule so I don’t need some random person on MN thinking they’re going to educate me by posting a copy and pasted list of vaccines

I’m making the point to a PP that covid is not measles or smallpox. Millions of people have contracted and survived covid in the last year without the vaccine. For the vast majority it is mild or completely asymptomatic. It is a good thing that we have a vaccine that can protect those who are more likely to have complications but references to older people remembering a ‘precarious life in the pre-vaccine days’ to make a point about the COVID vaccine are OTT and quite frankly ridiculous.

And if you don’t think children fall into a ‘vulnerable’ group wrt vaccines then I think you’re the one lacking basic knowledge of the benefits of vaccination @Druidlookingidiot

[quote bumbleymummy]@Druidlookingidiot I understand them very well thank you. Im also well aware of the vaccine schedule so I don’t need some random person on MN thinking they’re going to educate me by posting a copy and pasted list of vaccines

I’m making the point to a PP that covid is not measles or smallpox. Millions of people have contracted and survived covid in the last year without the vaccine. For the vast majority it is mild or completely asymptomatic. It is a good thing that we have a vaccine that can protect those who are more likely to have complications but references to older people remembering a ‘precarious life in the pre-vaccine days’ to make a point about the COVID vaccine are OTT and quite frankly ridiculous.[/quote]
So Covid isn't measles or Smallpox, give her a gold star!

Like I said, you evidently haven't lost anyone from Covid, which makes you so cavalier about it. I'm so happy for you, not.

Vaccination works best if as many people as possible have it, it's not just for those who are more likely to have complications. And anyway, no one can tell who those people are, due to the fact that Covid is random in the way it affects people.

Vaccination has saved and improved more lives than any other public health intervention. Having a vaccination for Covid is a miracle and you my dear, are an uninformed danger to society.

Covid is not a mild illness. Two friends of a colleague who are in their 30’s with no underlying health conditions have been in hospital with Covid since Christmas.

@Parker231

Covid is not a mild illness. Two friends of a colleague who are in their 30’s with no underlying health conditions have been in hospital with Covid since Christmas.

Out of interest are they obese?

You, my dear, have no idea what you’re talking about and clearly struggle with basic comprehension. ‘Danger to society’ how exactly? Because you’re mistakenly accusing me of being ‘anti-vaxx’? Where exactly have I said I’m against vaccination?

I’m not ‘cavalier’ about anything. I just choose not to live in fear of something that is statistically incredibly unlikely to seriously harm or kill me. I have had to take much bigger risks on a daily basis. And we do know the groups who are most likely to have complications. It’s why certain people have been prioritised. Low risk doesn’t mean no risk but it’s silly to think that every one has an equal chance of being seriously ill ‘at random’.

@Parker231

Covid is not a mild illness. Two friends of a colleague who are in their 30’s with no underlying health conditions have been in hospital with Covid since Christmas.

For the vast majority, it is.

I don’t think covid is enough of a grave risk to society to ethically warrant mandatory vaccination, also it cannot yet be proved to be safe (it can never be proved to be 100% safe) and therefore making vaccination compulsory would be unethical. I am pregnant and will then be breastfeeding, I will have a vaccine but probably not until after I finish breastfeeding. I don’t think people should be coerced into vaccinating either. I think most sensible people would agree it would go against our values of freedom and autonomy, including those who want to have the vaccine.

Having the vaccine isn’t just for your benefit - it adds to the number of people in the community who are protected from getting Covid— making it harder for the disease to spread and contributing to herd immunity. It also prevents the virus from spreading and replicating, which allows it to mutate and possibly become more resistant to vaccines.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers - no they aren’t obese. They are active, attend the gym and play in the same Sunday morning football team.

@Parker231

Having the vaccine isn’t just for your benefit - it adds to the number of people in the community who are protected from getting Covid— making it harder for the disease to spread and contributing to herd immunity. It also prevents the virus from spreading and replicating, which allows it to mutate and possibly become more resistant to vaccines.

Having COVID also confers immunity. Everyone who contracted COVID and recovered is also contributing to herd immunity and reducing its ability to spread.

It is still recommended that you have the vaccine if you have had Covid as it isn’t known yet how long you have immunity for.

DH tested positive from an antibody test last April. He had the test again in October and it showed negative. He had the vaccine in December. He is a GP so was in the first group.

I am informed that @bumbleymummy turns up on all the vaccination threads, peddling her anti-vax views. She claims not to be anti-vax but she clearly is.

I'm no longer feeding this troll and I advise everyone to ignore her dangerous posts.

We know more about how long immunity lasts from infection than we do about vaccine induced immunity. Studies showing antibodies persist for 6-8+ months after infection and that’s not taking t-cells into account. I think logistically it’s just easier to vaccinate everyone regardless of whether or not they’ve been previously infected.

Yeah an ‘anti-vaxxer’ who says that it’s a good thing we have vaccines Only on MN!

Covid is not a mild illness. Two friends of a colleague who are in their 30’s with no underlying health conditions have been in hospital with Covid since Christmas.

The vast majority of cases are very mild of asymptomatic. I'm in Austria where they have significantly upped testing (including requirement for tests to go to the hairdressers and when restaurants open, they will be needed for that too). The cases are increasing but the vast majority of those are completely asymptomatic and only being picked up when people have gone for a test.

Meanwhile, we have 4 cases in a week of people becoming seriously ill shortly after receiving the AZ vaccine. 1 person is dead. 2 are in ICU with pulmonary embolisms and another has had a stroke. All "younger people" under 60.
The AZ vaccine seems to be affecting the under 60 group more badly than the over 60s. A friend of mine who works in a hospital here said that most of the younger staff were completely floored for a day or two after the vaccine. Older staff were not affected.

The problem is going to be that the public acceptance for the vaccine is going to drop right down again if any more cases of blood clotting issues arise shortly after a vaccine. Our government is telling us that it's coincidence but they can't know that yet as the cases have not been investigated.
I was planning on getting mine as soon as I was eligible but no way now. I wouldn't be bothered about feeling shit for a couple of days after having it but I am scared of a pulmonary embolism.
Back to waiting and seeing....

Parker231

Anecdotal evidence. If you look at numbers, old age, underlying health conditions and obesity are risk factors. It's not true that covid affects people randomly, there are certain things that contribute to getting seriously ill. Vast majority of younger people are either asymptomatic or having mild symptoms. THAT is a fact. But surprisingly they have quite adverse reactions to AZ vaccine. I'm vaccinated (Pfizer) and didn't have any side effects, but my friends in Europe (young people age 20-40) are getting ill after vaccine. Some of them to a point they had to be hospitalised.

It's not true that covid affects people randomly

Are you a hermit? That's exactly what it does and why it's such a massive problem. People can be walking round with it and feel completely well whilst infecting others. A perfectly healthy person can catch it and die within three weeks. This has happened to someone close to me.

Gosh, the ignorance peddled on here is breathtaking.

In the UK I doubt there will ever be compulsory vaccination. However for international travel, countries may require it. On travelling to East Africa a good many years ago, my husband and myself were required to have Yellow Fever Vaccination. There was no Yellow Fever there, however there was in counties we were flying over. I disagree with Compulsory Vaccination. However those who aren't vaccinated are protected by the 80% of those of us who will be. I am happy to protect those who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. I am NOT happy to protect the others. If anyone knows anyone who is frightened by the myths that are being circulated please ask them to discuss their fear with a Health Professional or Biology Graduate. The vaccine DOES NOT affect their DNA.

A perfectly healthy person can catch it and die within three weeks.
But this is an exception, not a rule. And again - perfectly healthy young people dying of covid are in small minority. It's not my opinion, it's a fact supported by numbers and official data, not your anecdotal evidences. I know emotions play a big role and I feel sorry that you lost someone close to you for covid, but statistically young healthy person with no underlying conditions has the same chance of dying in a car crash as in dying of covid.

Look up 'Long Covid' as well. This isn't just affecting people who have been seriously ill with the disease. This is a new virus to Humans and we are still learning about its effects

[quote EasterIssland]For those of you that breast-feed, you know that it's allowed to have the vaccine and that they're doing tests and finding antibodies in the breast milk of those mums that have been vaccinated? so if that's the case you could be passing antibodies as well to your children?
www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2021/03/04/antibodies-for-covid-19-found-in-breast-milk-after-vaccine/?sh=58094fba6f4e[/quote]
Quoting this so it hopefully gets read by more people! I'm a BF mum and will be having my first vaccine on Mother's Day! Pleased that my vulnerable son will also be getting some protection. 🎉

@Druidlookingidiot

It's not true that covid affects people randomly

Are you a hermit? That's exactly what it does and why it's such a massive problem. People can be walking round with it and feel completely well whilst infecting others. A perfectly healthy person can catch it and die within three weeks. This has happened to someone close to me.

Gosh, the ignorance peddled on here is breathtaking.

No, it isn't exactly what it does. You've been told several times that, statistically, certain people are at higher risk than others. It is why the JCVI made the decision to prioritise certain groups for vaccination. I'm sorry that you've lost someone close to you but sadly, there are always cases where otherwise healthy people die from a virus or disease. This does not mean that everyone has an equal chance of being struck down at random.