What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

The knowledge of the adverse side effects that HAVE been reported, are bad enough that I simply can’t risk taking the jab - joint pain? Aka, arthritis? I’ll pass.

No. Joint pain is just that - pain in a joint. It can have several causes, the various types of arthritis being just one of them. Arthritis, in all its forms, is a damn sight more than just 'joint pain' and it's misinformation like this that prevents people from being taken seriously.

I can't believe people are saying 'it's not right but will happen anyway'. This is how things go bad - when people know something isn't right but don't stand up and say no. People in the Soviet Union turned a blind eye to the arrests and murders of their neighbours and even their family members just relieved it wasn't a knock on THEIR door, until it was. Everyone has a responsibility to stand up and protect our civil liberties. Especially in this country which is famous for its relative freedom.

murbblurb

I'm vaccinated, so I don't care. It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. But I would definitely keep two metres away from you .

Well I am vaccinated as are most of my NHS colleagues, seems folks on here are happy to be looked after by the NHS, expect them to have the vaccine to continue working whilst they refuse the vaccine themselves.,,,,, fantastic

I had a dead arm for two days, my son is 25 and is fully vaccinated and is a vaccinator himself, ...i hope they do passports for those vaccinated and have no doubt that receiving countries will expect evidence of being vaccinated too. Seems fair enough given the financial impact on the global economies, never mind those that had died, seems sensible approach to me given there are vaccines that work

@dividedwefall

I can't believe people are saying 'it's not right but will happen anyway'. This is how things go bad - when people know something isn't right but don't stand up and say no. People in the Soviet Union turned a blind eye to the arrests and murders of their neighbours and even their family members just relieved it wasn't a knock on THEIR door, until it was. Everyone has a responsibility to stand up and protect our civil liberties. Especially in this country which is famous for its relative freedom.

This terrifies me..... and to see so many people in agreement with it, and even wishing it goes as far as denying people access to things like shops, or having their benefits cut. I read that in Denmark, there was a proposal to force vulnerable people to have the vaccine... even going as far to get the police involved to help restrain them.

The argument with NHS and people that 'expect' care, but aren't vaccinated makes me laugh. I have tons of respect for NHS workers, I really do. But last time I checked they weren't a charity, they got paid for their work from taxpayers money. Vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Vaiana there not a charity but as you miss my point, everyone on here expects to be cared for by the NHS, however dont want a vaccine and expect NHS staff to all have one as if they dont there very vulnerable to covid and thus the NHS is further vulenerable as staff go off sick. My DH got covid in his recent hosptial admission and it nearly killed him. Hospitals are a high risk environment.. So if you need ITU due to COVID NHS staff should suck up the risk because others are scared of a vaccine...I have lost a very dedicated and excellent consultant colleague due to COVID so I have zero threshold to asshole arguments-

@reformedcharacters

amber763

Stupid? I think you will find HIV is a risk and as for smear tests, if employers are allowed access to health records in the recruitment process what is to stop them thinking they don’t want to employ anybody putting their health at risk as that will cost them. I suggest you educate yourself on the erosion of necessary protections before you label anybody as ‘stupid’.

Yeah, stupid. What on earth kind of risk to their colleagues do you think someone with hiv poses to their colleagues?

mybonnieliesovertheocean2
No one expects NHS staff to be vaccinated, they do that to protect themselves. Same as other people. I agree that people working in the hospitals are at higher risk from catching covid, but it's the same with other illnesses. Risk is a part of this job (and many other different jobs I might add).

Puzzled Observer

Andrew Wakefield was also a doctor when he wrote his infamous and wrong paper on MMR. The fact that one person has credentials does not necessarily mean they are right about everything*.

Too true. The fact that he’s infamous worldwide does prove the point though that he was the exception rather than the rule.

The disgrace of a human being was also motivated by profit and was heavily invested in alternatives. Can’t imagine that’s true of any of the scientists developing Covid jabs because, well, there are no alternatives 🤷‍♀️
AZ I believe is being provided at cost.

Hope there’s a Nobel in it for someone, though.

Vaiana I agree with you to a point. However vaccines arent just about protecting yourself, many hide behind the whole herd immunity nonsense but given the increase in measles and kids dying of measles I think we need to stop thinking this. WE are in the midst of a global pandemic which in our time has never happened before. Many including NHS workers are scared, however NHS workers due to there job are expected to get on with the job there paid for. My DH is the consultant on a covid mental health ward, he has patients in ITU, its alien territory for us all. However we all want to get out of this nightmare

ArseInTheCoOpWindow and Parker 231

Same here, ours (26 and 18) plus son in law (26) his brother (23) and our nieces and nephews (28, 26, 18 and two 16s) are equally keen. Our son has asthma, the others no underlying conditions.
Thankfully, young people seem to be thinking a little more deeply than some of their older relatives. It’s so not a big deal/ask to them. They’ve grown up with regular vaccines, listened to their grandparents/great grandparents talking about siblings who were lost to polio and measles and drawn their own conclusions.

Yeah, stupid. What on earth kind of risk to their colleagues do you think someone with hiv poses to their colleagues?

Seconded. I was given what for the other day for posting that I didn’t believe that HIV was still a stigma. Rightly so, it seems!

If people still hold such ignorant views, I admit I was (horrifyingly) wrong.

Thinking more deeply about whether or not they are actually at risk or thinking they have to get it in order to be able to travel?

@ViciousJackdaw

The knowledge of the adverse side effects that HAVE been reported, are bad enough that I simply can’t risk taking the jab - joint pain? Aka, arthritis? I’ll pass.

No. Joint pain is just that - pain in a joint. It can have several causes, the various types of arthritis being just one of them. Arthritis, in all its forms, is a damn sight more than just 'joint pain' and it's misinformation like this that prevents people from being taken seriously.

Jesus... You, random stranger on the Internet actually think you are educating me with your replies... it’s making me laugh out loud. As if I don’t have it myself already 😂, or as if it hadn’t run in my family!😂🤣

ITIS = INFLAMMATION

Arthritis = inflammation of joints

Joint pain = USUALLY CAUSED BY INFLAMMATION OF JOINTS = ARTHRITIS

DO WE KNOW THE LONGER TERM EFFECTS AND WHETHER THE REPORTED JOINT PAIN LASTS LONG ENOUGH TO BE DIAGNOSED AS ARTHRITIS?

NO
WE
DON’T

I’m done, get ya jab, don’t get ya jab, if it works so fabulously and it’s completely fool-proof, enjoy your immunity! Like genuinely, lovely, happy for you if it helps you sleep at night just don’t pester and vilify those who haven’t 😐🤔

Inside Health, Radio 4 this afternoon, posted that their programme next week will be devoted to vaccine side effects: it’s inciting questions which will be answered by people who know the accurate answers.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Still waiting for your response to my questions

@DenisetheMenace

Yeah, stupid. What on earth kind of risk to their colleagues do you think someone with hiv poses to their colleagues?

Seconded. I was given what for the other day for posting that I didn’t believe that HIV was still a stigma. Rightly so, it seems!

If people still hold such ignorant views, I admit I was (horrifyingly) wrong.

Oh yes sorry ‘stupid’ me for thinking HIV was transmissible

Hurling insults is a great way the deflect from the very obvious concerns of forced/coerced treatments as an erosion of fundamental protections.

I couldn’t care less who does and doesn’t have the vaccine, I care about any person’s right to bodily autonomy and use force/coercion by the removal of basic needs and freedoms.

Those in the UK, particularly the older generation should hang their heads in shame if they are will to support this given the history of how hard won these freedoms and protections have been.

Those who believe that restrictions will be limited only to covid are absolutely fooling themselves and by the time it becomes a real problem for many it will be too late.

reformedcharacters

Yes, HIV is transmissible: if you have unprotected sex with your colleagues. Even then, if they take prep, you’ll be fine.

So yes, in that particular regard, you are being so.

DenisetheMenace

Thanks for the further insults, try looking into the history of the Nuermberg Code. Also transmission can be accidental and therefore not risk free.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/569957

This will be debated in Parliament on 15th March.

At the end of the government response it states:

As the Prime Minister has said, there are complex ethical issues - and we can't discriminate against people who, for whatever reason, haven't had a vaccine

I’ve understood that immunity from catching the disease doesn’t last

We all had what we suspect was Covid back in December 2019. We have worked closely with people on a number of occasions (including last month) who have then tested positive for Covid the following day.
Every single person then goes down with Covid over the next couple of days. We isolated on each occasion and were the only ones who didn’t get Covid
I think the immunity lasts much longer than people have been able to test for.

I've had my NHS letter to say I can get the vaccination but I'm waiting for my GP surgery to contact me, I want to speak to a doctor first as I have several autoimmune conditions & I want to be sure it is safe for me to have it. Both my mum & ds have had the Pfizer jab & their autoimmune conditions have flared up, my mum has polymyalgia & has been in constant pain ever since her first jab, she had previously been in remission for nearly 2 years, ds has ME/CFS & has had all the symptoms of glandular fever er ever since his jab. I have ME/CFS, Fibromyalgia, Underactive thyroid & Sensori motor axonal neuropathy, I always react badly to the flu jab & have twice ended up with pneumonia after having it.

@Bythemillpond

I’ve understood that immunity from catching the disease doesn’t last

We all had what we suspect was Covid back in December 2019. We have worked closely with people on a number of occasions (including last month) who have then tested positive for Covid the following day.
Every single person then goes down with Covid over the next couple of days. We isolated on each occasion and were the only ones who didn’t get Covid
I think the immunity lasts much longer than people have been able to test for.

Yes immunity does last far longer than was at first thought. It lasts at least a year in many who've had the disease. There's a company called BioCard who make Covid-19 antibody tests, they're very accurate as they test specifically for the spike protein of COV-SARS-2. They've followed people who had Covid-19 a year ago and they still have antibodies.

Some people are vaccine hesitant for very good reason - we have health issues such as @Nat6999 posted above, who has autoimmunity and CFS. It's very worrying to think that anything can trigger our diseases to make them worse. If you live with such diseases it's a daily battle and the thought of it being made worse in any way is unbearable. Balance that against the worry of perhaps having a bad dose of Covid, it puts us in a very difficult position and people should understand that's why we don't just grab the vaccine with both hands, it's a difficult dilemma.