What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

[quote MsAlva]WineInTheWillows

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/966183/COVID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/966631/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print__2.pdf[/quote]
Sheesh, that's a looooooong list!

I can see why some people wouldn't want to have it.

The unvaccinated put themselves and others at risk For those who are genuinely medically unable that is different and they should be exempt but otherwise no vaccine no admission to pubs restaurants theatres etc be selfish and risk your own life but you can’t choose to risk others.

I don't understand some numbers from PP.

Keeping in mind few under 65 have been offered jab or were able to get their jab but had a chance to 'decline'.

There are just 8 CCGs in England, all London, that have vaccine refusal rates > 20%. Just 3 areas that are > 26%.

CCG, %age 65 who have had at least one dose
NHS City and Hackney CCG 76%
NHS Newham CCG 74%
NHS Tower Hamlets CCG 70%
NHS Waltham Forest CCG 80%
NHS Brent CCG 80%
NHS Central London (Westminster) CCG 61%
NHS Hammersmith and Fulham CCG 78%
NHS West London CCG 67.4%

If you look at MSOA level, only something like 3000 people age 80+ in all of England haven't had a jab.

ragged

I don't understand some numbers from PP.
Keeping in mind few under 65 have been offered jab or were able to get their jab but had a chance to 'decline'.“

I’m 56, no underlying conditions, having mine in a few days. All of my friends/relatives in the same age group and criteria have been invited.

I fully support the rights of anyone to choose to be vaccinated or not.
If they aren't, they take their chances.
I do feel very sorry for the people who medically can not be vaccinated- they are the people who need the herd immunity, not the refusers.

@MaxNormal

Idgaf what the unvaccinated do. Die quickly hopefully

Fuck you.

 for you @MaxNormal

@RMNMummy

I HOPE to God (or the universe, whatever floats your boat) that you are prepared for the sh!tstorm that will be the coming years.

Which is what, exactly? What is it you think the vaccines are going to do in the coming years - other than massively reducing the death and disability that would otherwise be caused by people catching Covid.

I think the anti vax are quite a small and reducing number. People that were nervous are seeing the results and people that are anti vax can see for themselves that some of the predicted side effects from the vaccine aren't happening.... There will always be those that believe rubbish and refuse to look at facts but the vast majority aren't stupid and want this covid over

You’re absolutely right, Alice, thank goodness.

@Dustyboots

"Yes Covid is a lottery - but injecting regular experimental vaccines into yourself is too."

Seriously, you actually believe that it is an experimental vaccine! Go educate yourself.

[quote PuzzledObserver]@RMNMummy

I HOPE to God (or the universe, whatever floats your boat) that you are prepared for the sh!tstorm that will be the coming years.

Which is what, exactly? What is it you think the vaccines are going to do in the coming years - other than massively reducing the death and disability that would otherwise be caused by people catching Covid.[/quote]
What I think - is not necessarily evidence-based. Happy to admit that. What I genuinely think as per the side effect profile is that it will create neurodegenerative diseases to appear earlier on in life; cancers will increase and we clearly don’t know enough about how it affects DNA because:

What I know is that there is NIL information about how this RNA vaccine works in the longer-term. And from the extensive side effects published, I would personally rather not risk it.

Yes, of course, this means potentially catching covid-19 (which it appears I have not - who knows, considering it’s asymptonatic in a a significant amount of people), we are fairly well informed that there is a possibility of developing long-COVID, death etc. which is the point - we are informed so we can choose to take this risk.

To note: regular vaccines I am all over! They have a substantial benefit vs risk profile and I am fully vaccinated for your ‘regular’ diseases. Just not this one.

I would possibly consider in future once substantial information is available to make that informed decision. Until then, it’s a no from me... I think right to bodily autonomy is of the upmost importance when we are considering human rights.

[quote AliceLives2021]@Dustyboots

"Yes Covid is a lottery - but injecting regular experimental vaccines into yourself is too."

Seriously, you actually believe that it is an experimental vaccine! Go educate yourself.[/quote]
‘Go educate yourself’, yet it is publicly visible that the vaccines ARE indeed still in trials until 2023.........

@28ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm
No we wont, as we will build up immunity in a natural way, from within.

‘Go educate yourself’, yet it is publicly visible that the vaccines ARE indeed still in trials until 2023.........

I'm not sure that you understand how clinical trials and vaccine development work.
They will continue to monitor, probably for decades and learn more about the vaccine's effectiveness.
This does not mean that it was released to the general public without the necessary safety checks in place.

@LarryWasAHappyChap

‘Go educate yourself’, yet it is publicly visible that the vaccines ARE indeed still in trials until 2023.........

I'm not sure that you understand how clinical trials and vaccine development work.
They will continue to monitor, probably for decades and learn more about the vaccine's effectiveness.
This does not mean that it was released to the general public without the necessary safety checks in place.

I’m not saying I fully understand, I know roughly only from going into it during my degree. I’m not arrogant enough to think my opinion and views are absolute. This is why I think it’s important to talk about this stuff and not just scream ‘EDUCATE YOURSELVESSSSSSSS -__- ‘ without discussion and debate.

My main points:

1. We ARE in trials! For a vaccine which has NOT been widely used ever before, like the ‘standard’ vaccines we are all used to and DO have massively published short and long term side effect studies. We are ABLE to make fully informed decisions as we HAVE the data for this. Whether that is the ‘norm’ for vaccine trials or not, they’re still trials.

1. That we do not know the longer term effects. That, is a fact, sadly.

The unvaccinated put themselves and others at risk For those who are genuinely medically unable that is different and they should be exempt but otherwise no vaccine no admission to pubs restaurants theatres etc be selfish and risk your own life but you can’t choose to risk others

Why would all the unvaccinated put anyone at risk. A lot would already have been naturally vaccinated by actually having the disease.

As for refusing entry to places with out the right paperwork, that sounds awfully like a certain period in history that I thought we had come through and didn’t want to go back to.
If some countries want to ban anyone without the right paperwork then so be it. There is a big world and it will just mean going elsewhere on holiday

@RMNMummy thanks for responding.

Neurodegenerative diseases and cancers earlier in life..... I wonder why that would happen, given that the vaccine itself leaves your body within a few days. Effect on DNA.... none whatsoever. Zero. Nil. It doesn’t affect your DNA.

But you don’t want it, OK.

@RMNMummy they are still in trials to see how long the immunity lasts. They are not in trials to establish that they are safe - that has been done

Wow, there are some real nutters in the world/this thread

[quote AliceLives2021]@Dustyboots

"Yes Covid is a lottery - but injecting regular experimental vaccines into yourself is too."

Seriously, you actually believe that it is an experimental vaccine! Go educate yourself.[/quote]
You educate yourself, both in manners and in this new vaccine. It is experimental.

A lot of you people are actual psychopaths. With this level of hysteria and genuine evil afoot, I foresee concentration camps for "the unvaccinated" coming our way.

@GreenBalaclava

There's no reason to suppose that Covid will become "stronger and therefore potentially more lethal". My understanding is that this isn't the typical progression of similar viruses.

Quite. Virus mutations which kill off the hosts in large numbers do not survive to reproduce.

A lot of you people are actual psychopaths. With this level of hysteria and genuine evil afoot, I foresee concentration camps for "the unvaccinated" coming our way

First we had neighbours reporting neighbours for possible infractions
Now we have talk of countries/businesses/work and venues banning people who don’t conform.
You do wonder what the next step will be?

[quote EasterIssland]@Whereismymojo of course not, if you have medical reasons why you can't have the vaccine then that's one thing. If you dont have it because you dont believe in science then it's another thing,[/quote]
What if you do believe in science but you like your science to have been rigorously tested as it usually is? What if you are waiting for outcome of the long-term trials?