What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

I work for the largest NHS trust in the UK, the ‘refuseniks’ are around 28%.

Hampshire are having one to ones with their refuseniks... I had my 2nd jab today and I’m so grateful

@Livelovebehappy

Of course people have the option not to have it. But countries also have the option to not allow people in who have not been vaccinated. If people are happy with that, and accept that they could be hospitalised if they catch the virus, then let them get on with it.

I am ok with other countries refusing entry... that concept is nothing new. But to do things domestically such as go to concerts, cinema, even the local corner shop... no, just no.

We’ve been vaccinating in this country since the 1940s and if you look at the safety record it’s easy to see how safe it is.

The Covid vaccinations haven’t just appeared overnight. They are based on years of research and studies. Millions have already had the vaccine and our country is beginning to recover.

Surely none of us wants to carry on living like this with lockdowns? Our mental health is suffering, people are dying from other things, people are unable to work, some have lost their jobs and our economy is fucked.

These vaccines are a miracle, everyone who can, should get a vaccine.

Once everyone has been offered the vaccine hopefully we will be all 'released' and those who choose not to have the vaccine will have to take their chances with getting Covid and having restrictions on their lives like travel or social events they are not allowed to go to. That is their choice.
Those who medically cannot have the vaccine should be supported to shield as much as they can but hopefully if they do get it treatment will be quick and effective as the hospitals are less pressured.

People have genuine concerns about this vaccine. I don’t see why we should be excluded from normal life, it’s a crazy situation.

@reformedcharacters

I hope those in support of coerced/forced medical treatment and the abolition of medical privacy will be fine when HIV status is added or employers can access other records such as whether smear tests are up to date.

Don't be stupid. Someone being HIV positive or smear tests not being up to date aren't putting any other employees at risk.

@MaxNormal

Ffs. They should put us in stocks on the village square. Some of us can't have the vaccine, please stop this fucking pariah narrative.

Those who CAN'T are not the problem, those who WON'T are the problem

You should hope plenty of people refuse, so they end up with natural immunity, which is broader spectrum and overall likely to be more protective than a very specific vaccine. That will protect others more.

dryburgh.com/byram-bridle-coronavirus-vaccine-concerns/

@Sadsiblingatsea

People have genuine concerns about this vaccine. I don’t see why we should be excluded from normal life, it’s a crazy situation.

Its called choice - you choose not to take the perceived risk, so you have to accept the consequences. People who choose not to have the vaccine are happy to take the risk to themselves - and put others at risk, so they have to accept that others may not want that risk inflicted on them. A venue, for example, where everyone has been vaccinated would likely be more popular for most than sitting in a seat next to someone who could pass you Covid - even if you wont get it as severely

@Sadsiblingatsea

People have genuine concerns about this vaccine. I don’t see why we should be excluded from normal life, it’s a crazy situation.

But your genuine concerns just mean you're not informed. Everyone who can, should get the vaccine to protect themselves and others, especially those who are vulnerable and can't be vaccinated.

Inform yourself and then you will want to vaccine.

amber763

Stupid? I think you will find HIV is a risk and as for smear tests, if employers are allowed access to health records in the recruitment process what is to stop them thinking they don’t want to employ anybody putting their health at risk as that will cost them. I suggest you educate yourself on the erosion of necessary protections before you label anybody as ‘stupid’.

WineInTheWillows

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/966183/COVID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/966631/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print__2.pdf

[quote rosiejaune]You should hope plenty of people refuse, so they end up with natural immunity, which is broader spectrum and overall likely to be more protective than a very specific vaccine. That will protect others more.

dryburgh.com/byram-bridle-coronavirus-vaccine-concerns/[/quote]
You evidently haven't read the slides that come with that link. Byram is advocating the use of vaccines.

As a viral immunologist who develops immunization strategies to prevent infectious
diseases and treat cancers, I teach the value of high-quality, well-validated vaccines and
passionately promote their use
• Vaccines are, by far, the most efficient type of medicine; they cost-effectively save millions
of people from sickness and/or death
• For the sake of global health, we need people to maintain faith in vaccine

I think that we have to separate those who have not been vaccinated into groups.

1. those who cannot have the vaccine for some medical reason

I have every sympathy with this group and they should be given an exempt status certificate, or an actual vaccine passport. The passport could be for those who have been vaccinated and those who can’t.

2. those who won’t have the vaccine because they don’t believe in it, don’t want it, or have self-diagnosed out of it.

It is their choice, but choices have consequences. I have little sympathy with them and think it fine for others to discriminate based on their choices.

Yes, I do judge those who choose not to have it. I know one person who openly says she will be fine not having it as everyone else will and she doesn’t want a gluey reaction.

I’ve been offered the vaccine but don’t know what to do.

If the immunity lasted for a few years I’d take it. But the fact it runs out so quickly and variants mean we’ll keep needing new jabs ...

That puts me off.

Plus side effects sound awful.

Yes Covid is a lottery - but injecting regular experimental vaccines into yourself is too.

@ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm

Idgaf what the unvaccinated do. Die quickly hopefully.

Says a LOT about your character that you ‘hope’ people die. Disgusting, completely immoral.

Take up where I live is just over 90%

For those who can’t have the vaccine, as with other diseases, society does the best to protect them with a functioning health system and we hope fast developments in treatments.

For those who choose not to have a vaccine, that is their right, each individual has the right to choose what preventative medicine or treatments they are willing to accept. In the event that an individual who has chosen not have a vaccine becomes ill with Covid, we look after them with a functioning health system as any civilised society must.

As society, we can try to persuade people to have a vaccine, if they are able to, but we cannot compel them to do so, either literally forcibly or by imposing restrictions on an individuals freedom to such an extent that they have no other choice.

If other countries choose to impose restrictions on travel, that is a restriction an individual will have to take account of in making their decision as to whether to have the vaccine or not.

The simple position is that we get as many people as we possibly can vaccinated voluntarily and then we open up. Covid is not the infectious disease which ends society as we previously knew it, just as other infectious diseases did not end society as known in past centuries. Human beings require social interaction, restrictions cannot last forever.

Regrettably and inescapably that does mean that a number of people (in their thousands) will die each year of Covid, just as people die of flu, malaria, HIV, Ebola etc. worldwide each and every year. But ultimately, we do what we are planning to do, we vaccinate, we treat and we do what we can with all of the medical advancements at our disposal to mitigate that toll as best we can but we don’t achieve anything by turning on our values of being a liberal democracy to compel individuals to make decision that they do not wish to make.

@Inwiththenew

Based on current numbers of adverse reactions I think you’ll find it’s the other way around and the vaccinated are going to be the ones taking up hospital beds!

This!!! So true.

If the masses actually understood what’s going on, they would be completely flabbergasted.

The knowledge of the adverse side effects that HAVE been reported, are bad enough that I simply can’t risk taking the jab - joint pain? Aka, arthritis? I’ll pass.

Give it 10ish years and neuro diseases will skyrocket. It’s so sad - I, unlike many of the vaccinated, don’t wish it on those who have been fooled into being vaccinated, but sadly it’s only a matter of time :(

@Lfw37

For those who can’t have the vaccine, as with other diseases, society does the best to protect them with a functioning health system and we hope fast developments in treatments.

For those who choose not to have a vaccine, that is their right, each individual has the right to choose what preventative medicine or treatments they are willing to accept. In the event that an individual who has chosen not have a vaccine becomes ill with Covid, we look after them with a functioning health system as any civilised society must.

As society, we can try to persuade people to have a vaccine, if they are able to, but we cannot compel them to do so, either literally forcibly or by imposing restrictions on an individuals freedom to such an extent that they have no other choice.

If other countries choose to impose restrictions on travel, that is a restriction an individual will have to take account of in making their decision as to whether to have the vaccine or not.

The simple position is that we get as many people as we possibly can vaccinated voluntarily and then we open up. Covid is not the infectious disease which ends society as we previously knew it, just as other infectious diseases did not end society as known in past centuries. Human beings require social interaction, restrictions cannot last forever.

Regrettably and inescapably that does mean that a number of people (in their thousands) will die each year of Covid, just as people die of flu, malaria, HIV, Ebola etc. worldwide each and every year. But ultimately, we do what we are planning to do, we vaccinate, we treat and we do what we can with all of the medical advancements at our disposal to mitigate that toll as best we can but we don’t achieve anything by turning on our values of being a liberal democracy to compel individuals to make decision that they do not wish to make.

The best post in this entire thread, and even the Coronavirus board. Thank you.

If your make having the vaccines as we do in this country, then we have to expect a percentage of the population not to have it. Of course there are people who can’t have it and they rely on the majority of those who can to be vaccinated.

Hopefully the we will reach a high enough percentage of vaccinated population to protect the rest who aren’t. I suspect if people are stopped from travelling to have their 2 weeks in the sun, the numbers will increase. The risk of missing a summer holiday is more of a risk to some than becoming seriously ill with Covid. That’s until they or someone close to them becomes ill. When that happens they’ll be clamouring at their GP’s door.

People not wanting to be vaccinated will not kill anyone and if anybody thinks it will then this vaccine being effective is quite frankly untrue.”

It is true unfortunately. A minority of people can’t take it and will be very vulnerable if take up isn’t as high as it should be.

Indeed, traditional vaccines have. This is NOT a traditional vaccine and indeed IS experimental, until further data is published in 2023.

If a person refuses the vaccine they must be willing to take their chances.

Let them and let the BHS crack on and deal with other stuff.

The refuseniks can cure themselves with quinoa and fresh air.

@GintyMcGinty

If a person refuses the vaccine they must be willing to take their chances.

Let them and let the BHS crack on and deal with other stuff.

The refuseniks can cure themselves with quinoa and fresh air.

Except that wont happen. The NHS has never refused anyone any treatment because of something a patient did or didn't do. What makes you think this will change?