to find the reaction to BMI related vaccines.... interesting?

[staydazzling]

Ive noticed a lot of posts on twitter and of course Prof. Tracey from Facebook type posts bemoaning the fact people with a high BMI are getting an early vaccine, how undeserving we all are, its almost as if "we only care about your health" only applies if we are at a disadvantage in the health care system, and as soon as an outdated measurement gives us an advantage that 'care' is replaced by resentment 🤔. funny that, almost as if it was never motivated by care at all.
A big reason why ill have to tell noone ive had the vaccine i also have an immune condition that flags me not particularly serious, ive only ever been in hospital to give birth, many others like me, seeing lots of true colours recently. finally benefitting from the blunt instrument that is BMI and apparently that's no ok either! all very interesting.

Depends really. BMI is an stupid measurement so that's a red herring here.

The question as to whether those who are morbidly obese due to lifestyle choices (ie. Not underlying medical conditions that would therefore put them into a different category) should be prioritised over those who have made healthier lifestyle choices is an interesting one.

I remember at school having to debate questions such as - should smokers have to pay for lung cancer treatment? Which is a similar concept.

Ultimately the grey area is WHY an individual is obese (mental health issues also get mentioned) and the fact that it's a lot easier for some people to remain slim, irrespective of their diet and exercise.

I think most (reasonable!) people are just happy that people are getting vaccinated. Every vaccine, regardless of reason, gets us one step closer to a lower death toll, lower hospitalisations, lower cases = normal life. Try not to listen to people - they will always have opinions on things that have nothing to do with them

Every person vaccinated is a bonus for me, regardless. There is so much of this "me first" amd judging going on. I'm happy to wait my turn and be careful in the meantime.

I think if you start saying that conditions are the fault of the person and that therefore they shouldn't be prioritised for treatment, you are on very dodgy ground.

Does this lead to:

• not treating drunk people or people who have taken drugs
• not treating people with skiing or race car or horse riding accidents

-etc

I gain weight very easily - and very much enjoy unhealthy food. I'm not naturally sporty and my hobbies are sedentary.
Therefore, it's a real struggle to remain slim in comparison to my friend who is a completely different body type plus absolutely loves sports - her hobbies are rock climbing, running and gymnastics.

I'd argue it is a hell of a lot more effort for me to be healthy than it is for her - it's a personality thing combined with genetics.

But I do put in that effort, because I feel the importance of being healthy(er).

There are, of course, many people who don't exercise or eat well because of mental health issues. There are many people who are obese because of underlying health conditions.
But there are a LOT of people who are, quite frankly, just lazy.
It's not my place to say who falls into what group - but it is quite frustrating to see people be prioritised for, essentially, making bad choices.

If money was put into helping people who struggle with disordered eating at an earlier stage we wouldn’t be in the position of so many people being morbidly obese.
I was a teen when I was referred to a dietician (not for obesity but for disordered eating). I was given some soup recipes! It was the 90s but no mental help referral at all. From there I went on to have 20 years of bulimia and even now suffer from disordered eating although I’ve got the purging under control. I’ve asked for help and been given dirt advice.

The whole issue is massively complicated and shaming people who are overweight is never the answer.

@Alexandernevermind

Every person vaccinated is a bonus for me, regardless. There is so much of this "me first" amd judging going on. I'm happy to wait my turn and be careful in the meantime.

This is a very good way of viewing it.

Surely it depends why you’re obese. The NHS doesn’t treat thyroid or pcos proactively and so those with severe forms will be obese (at the lower end) despite limiting calories and exercising. Disabled people often become obese once they are in a wheelchair because it’s often really difficult to find spaces that will enable you to exercise (or access to dieticians who have appropriate calorie advice).

For me it's just ridiculous that someone with a bmi of 40 plus is pretending to be concerned about health when they have had a whole year to lose weight and chosen to spend that year stuffing their faces and posting stay the fuck at home all over social media. If obese people want the vaccine, they should take it, we will all get offered it so I dont care when they get offered it.

I believe obesity is caused by excess calories and is ALWAYS reversible if the patient is willing to eat less. I know there are medical and emotional reasons why people find it hard to eat less but I'm not about to engage with the 'you're mean, it's not my fault I'm obese' crowd. No, it's not your fault you're obese, its your choice to stay obese ffs!

I feel better for that rant!

Yes, the response to the obese and unpaid carers getting the vaccine has been rather eye opening. We are all going to be vaccinated and quite soon.

@Rasclut wow, groundbreaking idea there - obese people should eat less, someone should tell them, bet that's never been tried before

I think people should be treated equally by our NHS no matter how you've come to be there. Which is why I'm so opposed to coerced vaccinations. We all have a right to do what we want to our body. We shouldn't give the government or NHS the right to control our bodies or to treat people differently by their own opinions. It would be discrimination, you'd have them saying you're lying about never having smoked etc and you would have people lying to get treatment and therefore not getting the right treatment.

But it is interesting to think about if its fair that people who have put themself in danger get priority over people who have tried to be healthy and have therefore not added to the burden on the NHS.

I was going to say that I hadn’t seen anyone really saying this and then I read @Rasclut post.

“ If money was put into helping people who struggle with disordered eating at an earlier stage we wouldn’t be in the position of so many people being morbidly obese.”

Spot on. I was severely anorexic for 10 years. BMI of 12. My BMI now states that I’m borderline obese (though friends guess I weigh 3 stone less than I do so I carry it well). I need to loose weight again but every time I’ve tried my head flips back into anorexic only eat 5 grapes for the day mode. I drop a 20lbs, realise I’ve become an obsessed crazy freak, stop and pike everything back on again.

I know I need to loose weight, I’d love to. But I’m so much healthier being overweight than I was when I was anorexic.

We need to deal with cultural behaviour towards food, and the food industry that is completely focused on getting you to eat more food no matter what.

The vaccination priority protocol is not prioritising which people are deserving of being protected soonest- its about the reducing the impact on the NHS of those people getting the virus.

@Rasclut

For me it's just ridiculous that someone with a bmi of 40 plus is pretending to be concerned about health when they have had a whole year to lose weight and chosen to spend that year stuffing their faces and posting stay the fuck at home all over social media. If obese people want the vaccine, they should take it, we will all get offered it so I dont care when they get offered it.

I believe obesity is caused by excess calories and is ALWAYS reversible if the patient is willing to eat less. I know there are medical and emotional reasons why people find it hard to eat less but I'm not about to engage with the 'you're mean, it's not my fault I'm obese' crowd. No, it's not your fault you're obese, its your choice to stay obese ffs!

I feel better for that rant!

Anthea? Is that you/

The prioritisation for vaccines isn't based on some kind of ranking of deservingness - otherwise they obviously wouldn't have started with people in their 90s who are on their last legs anyway! It's designed to reduce pressure on the NHS and society as quickly as possible by reducing the level of serious illness and death. On those grounds it absolutely makes sense to prioritise people with high BMI as we know they are at higher risk of hospitalisation/death.

People who think that those with high BMI are undeserving and should be deprioritised presumably should also be in favour of all sorts of other criteria being used - deprioritise anyone with a history of law-breaking, prioritise anyone who does volunteer work etc etc. Except that would be nonsense, obviously. This is a practical public health exercise, not some kind of biblical reckoning.

I've had no one bat an eyelid at me getting a vaccine. I don't surround myself with dickheada nor do I care what people say on twitter (no one should)

(and to add - not saying I think people with high BMI are undeserving of the vaccine, not at all. Just pointing out that people who are bringing that up are missing the whole point of the exercise)

If you want to talk about who deserves what treatments based on behaviour you would have to factor in all sort of other stuff like who smokes, drinks, drives too fast on the motorway, has lots of unprotected sex, doesn't worry about best before dates, does extreme sports, doesn't wear a cycle helmet or rides a bike at all come to think of it.

It is just because you can SEE obesity and it is seen as disgusting that people differentiate like this. And just because people like to think that life and behaviour and what drives us to do things is very simple and clean. Which it isn't, and health care should be set up for how things are not how they should be (according to some people). Thankfully and for now it more or less is set up like that.

I don’t care. You’re vulnerable because you’re vulnerable.
Faux care for fat people is often just an excuse to judge and bash them

I’m thin but in honesty I am largely disordered in my eating and dress that up as intermittent fasting

If someone needs extra care give it to them. Food and eating is complicated.

A slow hand clap for @rascult for enlightening us about calories = weight carrying extra timber because of lockdown by the way, despite good intentions, isn't that unusual.
The powers that be aren't interested (rightly so) in why one group is more likely to become seriously ill from Covid than another, they are just recognising the fact that they are more likely to need a hospital bed so are vacciating them faster. Its a no brainer.

Old people, sick people, obese people are all priorities for the same reason- they're more likely to have a more serious condition if infected and this impacts the NHS

I just hope that people with a BMI over 40 actually realise their weight and heightened risk and let their GP know their weight. Many people don't realise how heavy they are. I never got that heavy but when I was overweight, I knew I was carrying an extra stone or so but it wasn't until I actually weighed myself and calculated my BMI as 30 that I realised I was obese. I had no idea whatsoever that my weight had increased so much. I'd bet money that there are many people out there with a BMI of 40 and up who don't have any idea their weight is high enough to mean they are very high risk with Covid. They know they are overweight but their idea of what someone with a BMI of 40+ would look like is much heavier than they think it is. And unless they have been weighed recently in a medical setting their doctor has no way of knowing either.

I have family members who are very likely to qualify for an earlier vaccine due to their weight but am very worried they either don't realise. Or if they do, will be embarrassed to 'jump the queue' rather than really accept that they need to be vaccinated as soon as possible.

Also and although no one will like this. I have had three relative vaccinated who are stage 6b+ with Alzheimer’s
Their life as they loves and knew it ended over 2 yrs ago and they are now in full care nursing homes unable to leave their beds
As a family we have hoped they will die. It haas been impossible to see this living death month after month.
This isn’t me being callous - you hopefully have no idea what this is like for us.
Vaccinating them v an obese person makes zero sense to me