to find the reaction to BMI related vaccines.... interesting?

[staydazzling]

Ive noticed a lot of posts on twitter and of course Prof. Tracey from Facebook type posts bemoaning the fact people with a high BMI are getting an early vaccine, how undeserving we all are, its almost as if "we only care about your health" only applies if we are at a disadvantage in the health care system, and as soon as an outdated measurement gives us an advantage that 'care' is replaced by resentment 🤔. funny that, almost as if it was never motivated by care at all.
A big reason why ill have to tell noone ive had the vaccine i also have an immune condition that flags me not particularly serious, ive only ever been in hospital to give birth, many others like me, seeing lots of true colours recently. finally benefitting from the blunt instrument that is BMI and apparently that's no ok either! all very interesting.

I really hate how being fat is the last thing that it’s ok to mock it seems. It really isn’t as simple as people being lazy fat pigs. My BMI is 39 and I am so upset about it. Was never skinny but had a totally normal BMI of about 24 until I got pregnant 12 years ago, had puerperal psychosis and was put on olanzapine while literally insane under section. I completely ballooned (a known side effect of this drug that people have successfully sued for in the US but not possible in the UK) from a size 12 to a size 20 within 3 weeks. It didn’t even work and then I was put on lithium which wrecked my thyroid but that didn’t get recognised for about 6 years because I kept being told I was just depressed when I complained that I was tired and gaining weight. I’ve also been through domestic abuse, an endless child custody court battle with my abuser, my child being abducted by my abusive ex and my 30 something brother suddenly collapsing and dying out of the blue. Oh and I have bipolar disorder and am a GP so a massively stressful and sedentary job. In a pandemic. And am a single mother. I don’t drink or smoke or take drugs and although my diet isn’t great I honestly believe that I self medicate my feelings by eating. But I haven’t gained weight just never managed to lose it after the disaster of the postnatal period and it’s been one trauma after another since then. Losing weight is not easy. Much easier to prevent gaining in the first place. And under section I got zero help with this (I was in hospital for months), no ability to exercise and no ability to control what I had to eat. But I just know most people look at me and assume I am a gredddy lazy fat pig and it’s very upsetting.

@Iceskatingfan

I really hate how being fat is the last thing that it’s ok to mock it seems. It really isn’t as simple as people being lazy fat pigs. My BMI is 39 and I am so upset about it. Was never skinny but had a totally normal BMI of about 24 until I got pregnant 12 years ago, had puerperal psychosis and was put on olanzapine while literally insane under section. I completely ballooned (a known side effect of this drug that people have successfully sued for in the US but not possible in the UK) from a size 12 to a size 20 within 3 weeks. It didn’t even work and then I was put on lithium which wrecked my thyroid but that didn’t get recognised for about 6 years because I kept being told I was just depressed when I complained that I was tired and gaining weight. I’ve also been through domestic abuse, an endless child custody court battle with my abuser, my child being abducted by my abusive ex and my 30 something brother suddenly collapsing and dying out of the blue. Oh and I have bipolar disorder and am a GP so a massively stressful and sedentary job. In a pandemic. And am a single mother. I don’t drink or smoke or take drugs and although my diet isn’t great I honestly believe that I self medicate my feelings by eating. But I haven’t gained weight just never managed to lose it after the disaster of the postnatal period and it’s been one trauma after another since then. Losing weight is not easy. Much easier to prevent gaining in the first place. And under section I got zero help with this (I was in hospital for months), no ability to exercise and no ability to control what I had to eat. But I just know most people look at me and assume I am a gredddy lazy fat pig and it’s very upsetting.

You went from a size 12-20 in 3 weeks? I didn’t even think that was possible!

Very sorry you went through all of that, must have been so tough

She says she is on slimming world and then sends pictures of her chinese takeaway or her chocolate pancakes or whatever cake she has baked.

These are all normal things to eat...

Not if you are trying to lose weight.

Excellent posts @SomersetHamlyn!

It's so hard. First of all food is a cheap comfort. Bad day you don't reach for an apple but Lidl have a doughnut for 30p or whatever
Less healthy food tends to be cheaper and easier and less time to cook
People who don't have access to "average" cooking facilities and are managing with maybe just a microwave and kettle

Health issues - I'm mid drug trial but if I exercise I'm covered head to toe in hives. Add a thyroid issue on to that and a shit load of other autoimmune conditions that wipe me out
Work - I work sat down for 9hrs a day in a job where you are literally tied to your desk with a headset. No getting up and walking around
So by the time you finish work and you're knackered as working through health issues, you want easy comfort food and bed
Mental health, especially in a pandemic. Comfort eating because you can't do your usual "comfort" things like the gym/pub/go out with mates

It's massively complex and if one more person trots out to move more, I'm likely to roll them in nettles then ask them to go for a run and see if they manage it while itching everywhere

Baking a cake doesn't make you fat though does it? Nor does eating one slice.
Or eating enough Chinese take away to feel full, but no more. This would be a normal way to eat for someone with a healthy relationship with food. Most dieters don't have that healthy relationship, leading to yo-yo dieting, sometimes binge eating, and your body not knowing whether it's coming or found.

I've literally just had my weekly chippy item. I am on calorie restricted diet losing weight consistently.
I could easily fit a piece of cake in on another day.😁 i choose cheese instead though🙈
Cheese (and carbs) for life✌️

@OnceIWasAnApe But research shows that most people who lose a significant amount of weight will put it back on within five years- usually with more on top- and that the pattern of losing and gaining a lot of weight is very, very bad for your health.

Those are both myths. The only research that shows that is really dodgy and not at all proof of anything. It mainly dates back to a really small scale study in 1959 of 100 people with a long history of struggling with maintaining weightloss. It is constantly used now as the basis of this claim. Something the research scientist who conducted the study argued it never should be because it's taken completely out of context.

There also isn't actually that much evidence to show that yo-yoing weight is all that bad for you. Especially when eating habits of people who yo-yo are such that in all likelihood they would have just continued to gain through the period the lost for, if they hadn't made the effort to lose. And yo-yoing absolutely isn't worse than steady gain.

There is evidence that people who diet, hit a goal weight and revert to their previous eating habits will not stay at their goal weight. That's just basic sense, tbh. But people who change their whole approach to eating and activity can and do maintain weightloss. The long, long term research conducted but the American National Weight Control Registry bears this out.

Telling people that losing weight and maintaining their new weight isn't feasible is really defeatist and prevents people from ever even trying to improve their health. Well of course, we know that, diets are billion dollar industries, And this is caca too. Yes there is a lucrative diet industry, but guess what other industries their are? Worth an order of magnitude more multiples more than the 'diet' industry? But food production. Big sugar. McDonalds, KFC, Nestle, Coca Cola. Companies who employ food scientists to make their food as addictive as possible. Who employ psychology experts to market and promote their food. Who have schemes to attract children's pester power. But people do have power to limit the control they have on our personal health. Most people can lose weight simply by cutting down or cutting out junky snacks and swapping to a healthier breakfast if their breakfast is also junk. No diet industry has to make money off people making an effort to make simple healthier choices.

So @Rasclut believes people should be able to lose weight during a Lockdown and Pandemic which has taken its toll from a Mental Health/ stress side. Neither are optimum scenarios for weight loss.
I lost weight two years ago. I am very active anyway and had the motivation and relativiely stress free lifestyle which allowed me to put myself first for a change and lose weight.
Than disaster struck. Dd2 Mental Health took a nosedive. There had been issues before but it was more manageable. Dh physical health took a nosedive.
During the lockdowns the hard fought support we had in place for dd2 stopped. Homeschooling two probably PDA kids is a nightmare.
Funnily enough my weight increased not reduced due to the stress and l having less free time to exercise. An injury also complicated things.
Re the vaccine I have taken all the risk in the families I WOH and do supermarket etc. Dh at group 4 had had one dose which is a great relief
So I am over 50, asthmatic and an unpaid carer with a BMI of 35 plus but I have to wait for my age group due to a technicality. (Never applied DLA)
Of course I clearly deserve to wait and any risk must be sucked up as I clearly chose to regain the weight as I am greedy and lazy.

Some of these comments remind me of the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ AIDS opinions that used to be rife, and meant that those with the ‘bad’ version were undeserving of help I.e gay men and drug users who had ‘brought it on themselves’ as opposed to those who received infected blood.

We now have ‘good’ obesity - underlying medical problems - and ‘bad’ obesity - ‘can’t stop shovelling crap in’. Just a parallel I noticed scrolling the comments - I wonder if people will feel equally ashamed of thinking it in the future? Or is it a reaction to fear of an unknown illness? Obesity is such a multifaceted issue of mental health, circumstance and physical health and it’s often nigh on impossible to know, at a glance, the reason(s) behind obesity in an individual - yet an immediate judgement is often made without consideration of this. It seems sad that people are marked as deserving or undeserving of a priority vaccine with little understanding or care.

@InglouriousBasterd

Some of these comments remind me of the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ AIDS opinions that used to be rife, and meant that those with the ‘bad’ version were undeserving of help I.e gay men and drug users who had ‘brought it on themselves’ as opposed to those who received infected blood.

We now have ‘good’ obesity - underlying medical problems - and ‘bad’ obesity - ‘can’t stop shovelling crap in’. Just a parallel I noticed scrolling the comments - I wonder if people will feel equally ashamed of thinking it in the future? Or is it a reaction to fear of an unknown illness? Obesity is such a multifaceted issue of mental health, circumstance and physical health and it’s often nigh on impossible to know, at a glance, the reason(s) behind obesity in an individual - yet an immediate judgement is often made without consideration of this. It seems sad that people are marked as deserving or undeserving of a priority vaccine with little understanding or care.

Really well put.

There's loads of stuff people do this with. Homelessness, poverty, shitty relationships. Did you somehke cause it? Did you do enough to prevent it?

Where as there are other things we've moved past this. For example addiction. I do hope people look back at this and feel ashamed

Rasclut obesity is certainly not always the result of calories. That's a very ignorant thing to say. There a numerous medical conditions which cause obesity.

My poor mum had heart failure and kidney failure for years. She was morbidly obese due to fluid and lymphedema She could not exercise much as she could hardly move. She would go into hospital and lose stones in weight in weeks simply from them draining/managing the fluid.

Having said that there is a woman on my fb been offered the vaccine as her bmi was too high - however this was recorded at her Gp ages ago and she has since become a normal weight. She is going ahead and people are congratulating her for beating the system

one other thing that is forgotten in all of these nasty comments is this;
Poverty & diet & where you live
Family plus low income plus poor shopping facilities (small expensive shops with very few veg or fruit but cheap poor quality fillers)
Most dm will make sure the best food goes to their dc & fill up on cheap junk food themselves particularly if this is combined with them being time poor/on shifts etc
Look at food boxes offered by the charities -
depression & comfort eating & the interesting comment pp made about sleep apnoea (v interesting!) &as I said before some anti depressants actually make you put on weight

@InglouriousBasterd

Some of these comments remind me of the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ AIDS opinions that used to be rife, and meant that those with the ‘bad’ version were undeserving of help I.e gay men and drug users who had ‘brought it on themselves’ as opposed to those who received infected blood.

We now have ‘good’ obesity - underlying medical problems - and ‘bad’ obesity - ‘can’t stop shovelling crap in’. Just a parallel I noticed scrolling the comments - I wonder if people will feel equally ashamed of thinking it in the future? Or is it a reaction to fear of an unknown illness? Obesity is such a multifaceted issue of mental health, circumstance and physical health and it’s often nigh on impossible to know, at a glance, the reason(s) behind obesity in an individual - yet an immediate judgement is often made without consideration of this. It seems sad that people are marked as deserving or undeserving of a priority vaccine with little understanding or care.

This is spot on.

@Willyoujustbequiet - But it is 99% of the time.

There are many medical conditions that would contribute to restricted movements, and as you state water retention.

That does not get away from the fact that people put on weight as the calories going in is greater than the calorific output.

That is just science. Why people eat is a different issue and one that should be addressed in this country.

There are a range of socio economic reasons for this, and I do not think enough is done to educate people.

However, I think that removing any level of personal responsibility and blaming medical conditions for 63% of the population being over weight / obese is not helping the cause.

There is 15% adults in uk in poverty and 63% or something like that overweight/obese. Poverty is one driver but even if every single person in poverty was overweight/obese it would still leave massive% who are not overweight/obese because of poverty.
About 2% of people in UK are estimated to have obstructive sleep apnea. Again, it's just not that high to make any effect on overal numbers even with how many people have it when slim.
17% of adults have been prescribed antidepressants. I would strongly assume that some overlap with the poverty number.
There are people with illnesses causing them not being able to maintain healthy weight. I won't get percentage on that, but we all know it's not high enough to fill up the gap to 66%.
I could go on, but in the end many of us are obese simply because we... I don't know. Eat too much or eat like everyone used to actually and aren't as active as people used to be. It stinks to admit that that's what feeds the denial. More ofthen than not, it's us, not something else doing it to us.

(Children are a different matter and much more complicated so I am talking adults)

That said though. Whatever the cause it doesn't make person less "worthy" of vaccine!

@IngloriousBasterd absolutely spot on!

Good fatties and Bad fatties are definitely a thing too,
The posts on here where people are saying repeatedly how ashamed they are of themselves, and are only fat because they are horrible greedy pigs are considered good fatties, sadly it encourages the nastier posters to apply that label to all overweight people, and bad fatties are people who are more confident.

It's interesting that there hasn't been priority for black and ethnic minority people eveb though we know they are at higher risk of severe illness. There also hasn't been priority for men, either, even though statistically I think men are worse affected by covid-19.

I am happy for pretty much everyone to go before me. I will have my vaccine for "the greater good" but it's very likely I'd brush off coronavirus in the meantime.

If you prioritised everyone who might be at higher risk, the priority list would be so long that no one would actually get treated any quicker.
Best I think to just carry on with vaccinating by age, which will incorporate those whose risk might be a bit higher.

The calculator which was allocating the new category 6s does take ethnicity, sex, and whether you live in a deprived area into account. So in theory a black man with health condition X might trigger Clinically vulnerable status whereas a white man or a black woman of the same age with the same condition wouldn’t.

However the administrative and political downside of taking those factors into account at lower levels is probably not worth the benefits, since once you get to the healthy under 50s the absolute risk is tiny even if you multiply it by four for being black and male.

Martha I think today's news is BAME people are not more likely to die of CV19

"Ethnic minorities are NOT more likely to die from Covid than white Brits but they may be more at risk of catching it, major Government report finds" www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9300439/Ethnic-minorities-NOT-likely-die-Covid-white-Brits.html

i had my vaccine today
i wont be posting it on social media though or boasting about because of the reaction id get.

Hopefully in the future people can have a grown up discussion about weight stigma in medical care without shooting the messenger, anyone reading in a similar situation, have the vaccine! make the bluntly used instrument of BMI work to your advantage for a change.

Congratulations OP on getting the vaccine before others, even though, in your opinion, your BMI does not pose any risk to your health.