to find the reaction to BMI related vaccines.... interesting?

[staydazzling]

Ive noticed a lot of posts on twitter and of course Prof. Tracey from Facebook type posts bemoaning the fact people with a high BMI are getting an early vaccine, how undeserving we all are, its almost as if "we only care about your health" only applies if we are at a disadvantage in the health care system, and as soon as an outdated measurement gives us an advantage that 'care' is replaced by resentment 🤔. funny that, almost as if it was never motivated by care at all.
A big reason why ill have to tell noone ive had the vaccine i also have an immune condition that flags me not particularly serious, ive only ever been in hospital to give birth, many others like me, seeing lots of true colours recently. finally benefitting from the blunt instrument that is BMI and apparently that's no ok either! all very interesting.

@skeenskeenjellybean No, only one person on the thread said anything about BMI not being useful/accurate. Then there's you and one other poster - SomersetHamlyn - having your rants about BMI denialism.

It's literally in the first post. And the second. And several others on the first page alone.

staydazzling
as soon as an outdated measurement gives us an advantage that 'care' is replaced by resentment

AllTheFloralCurtains
Depends really. BMI is an stupid measurement so that's a red herring here.

I don't believe I have 'ranted' anywhere in the thread either, but clearly you're not bothered about being truthful in your denigration.

I think the vaccine should be distributed to those who are most morally pure. Group 1 should be people who can provide clear evidence of how pious they are; who undertake charitable work; who are nice to children and small animals; and who only eat within the government recommended daily allowance of everything.

The lowest group should be people who smoke, drink AND who’ve had a cream cake in the last 7 days.

@unmarkedbythat I was talking about the fat bashing that we all know does go on dressed up as concern for the NHS

According to Cancer Research UK,

"Yes, overweight and obesity is the second biggest cause of cancer in the UK - more than 1 in 20 cancer cases are caused by excess weight"

What makes you think it's 'dressed up as concern for the NHS', rather than, say, concern for the NHS?

That is cancer, only. There's also diabetes, stroke, cardiovascular disease, arthritis, dementia, and many, many other co-morbidities of obesity. More than half of UK adults are overweight or obese. The burden on the NHS is immense.

Do you think everyone who's been affected by the lack of NHS resources over the past year, and beyond, is really just pretending to be concerned about it and really they're just sneering at fat people?

"more than 1 in 20 cancer cases are caused by excess weight"

???

Er, so 19 out of 20 cancer patients, or 95%, are of average or under weight? Better pile on the pounds then, cos the stats are right there!

No, only one person on the thread said anything about BMI not being useful/accurate. Then there's you and one other poster - SomersetHamlyn - having your rants about BMI denialism.

It was in the OP (as well as the first response, and others). Not sure if you're new to this, but the OP (opening post) is literally what the thread is about and berating other posters for responding to the OP is ridiculous. HTH.

If losing weight were easy, the diet industry wouldn’t exist. It’s definitely not as straightforward as just eating less, there are much bigger factors at play, and a lot of those factors would need huge societal change to be rectified. As to whether it’s valid for people with high BMI to be prioritised, that’s down to clinical decision making, but the public reaction is unnecessary.

Honestly. There should never be thing like "lose wight to take care of our healthcare system"
It should be to take care of yourself/myself/themselves.

The only way to "take care of our healthcare system" is to push politicans to fund it properly, nlt by placing the responsibility for the state of it on individuals🤷🏻

@CallMeCleo
more than 1 in 20 cancer cases are caused by excess weight

Er, so 19 out of 20 cancer patients, or 95%, are of average or under weight? Better pile on the pounds then, cos the stats are right there!

Er, no. God. Sorry. I didn't realise it would need to be explained more than that.

1 in 20 cancer cases ARE CAUSED BY excess weight. Not 1 in 20 cases are in overweight people. 'Only' 1 in 20 are directly caused by the excess weight.

Perhaps this will help. 0 in 20 fatal car crashes are caused by excess weight. That does not mean that everyone who dies in a car crash is normal/under weight.

Or... hmmm. 0 in 20 cases of electrocution are caused by excess weight. That does not mean that everyone who is electrocuted is normal/under weight.

Does that help you to understand at all?

www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/obesity-weight-and-cancer/does-obesity-cause-cancer

If you said that to me in person, I'd get you arrested for Hate Crime

No, you wouldn't.

[quote SomersetHamlyn]**@unmarkedbythat* I was talking about the fat bashing that we all know does go on dressed up as concern for the NHS*

According to Cancer Research UK,

"Yes, overweight and obesity is the second biggest cause of cancer in the UK - more than 1 in 20 cancer cases are caused by excess weight"

What makes you think it's 'dressed up as concern for the NHS', rather than, say, concern for the NHS?

That is cancer, only. There's also diabetes, stroke, cardiovascular disease, arthritis, dementia, and many, many other co-morbidities of obesity. More than half of UK adults are overweight or obese. The burden on the NHS is immense.

Do you think everyone who's been affected by the lack of NHS resources over the past year, and beyond, is really just pretending to be concerned about it and really they're just sneering at fat people?[/quote]
Do you think everyone who's been affected by the lack of NHS resources over the past year, and beyond, is really just pretending to be concerned about it and really they're just sneering at fat people?

No, if I thought that I would have said that .

Why is it so very hard for some of you to acknowledge that there is a lot of fat bashing that goes on under the guise of legitimate concern? Why this need to pretend that in mentioning that I am claiming that all expressions of concern relating to obesity and health services are fake concern? Very strange, but as you and a few other pp seem to need an even more basic explanation:
some people are legitimately concerned by the impact obesity has on health services. Some people engage in fat bashing and pretend it is driven by this concern.

Is that understandable for you now? Would you like it in picture form next?

[quote SomersetHamlyn]@CallMeCleo
more than 1 in 20 cancer cases are caused by excess weight

Er, so 19 out of 20 cancer patients, or 95%, are of average or under weight? Better pile on the pounds then, cos the stats are right there!

Er, no. God. Sorry. I didn't realise it would need to be explained more than that.

1 in 20 cancer cases ARE CAUSED BY excess weight. Not 1 in 20 cases are in overweight people. 'Only' 1 in 20 are directly caused by the excess weight.

Perhaps this will help. 0 in 20 fatal car crashes are caused by excess weight. That does not mean that everyone who dies in a car crash is normal/under weight.

Or... hmmm. 0 in 20 cases of electrocution are caused by excess weight. That does not mean that everyone who is electrocuted is normal/under weight.

Does that help you to understand at all?

www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/obesity-weight-and-cancer/does-obesity-cause-cancer[/quote]
People read what they want to read unfortunatley.

Everyone I know is happy with the decision to prioritise those at greatest risk, whatever the reason.

I don’t know why you’d avoid telling people you know you’ve been vaccinated. No one has a BMI of 40 and is therefore morbidly obese without the people they know realising they’re big. Since the guidance on the priority listing is public knowledge people will assume you’re higher up the categories to get it. What’s to hide?

@Enoughnowithink,

Im not sure youve understood me, ive no issue at all, its others reactions i find disturbing.

There was a thread on here the other day by an NHS worker about horrific fat phobic bullying she had received at work, really unforgivable stuff.
The manager refuses to deal, sorry to bring up another thread, but if thats how staff are treated?

When i was pregnant, my glucose test ce back fine, no trace of gestational diabetes, as there hasn't been in any pregnancy of mine. The midwife launched a notebook across the room after another dr had to find out why my results weren't on tbe system, and she announced "I don't know how but its fine!!!" dr looked mortified but said nothing. I posted on here and was told i must be mistaken

Denialism about Obesity and Weight Stigma are 2 Horns on the same goat!!

I used to be super fit and skinny. Then an office based job, long hours and little time to exercise or cook properly and a low income all contributed to weight gain. 2 DC later there's also baby weight but I'm trying to do something about it. Looking at my family I don't think genetics are on my side either. Like a lot of people I put getting my career going over my health.
Be careful OP you might find yourself a little on the chubby side one day and then you might have a different view.

@Newpuppymummy

If money was put into helping people who struggle with disordered eating at an earlier stage we wouldn’t be in the position of so many people being morbidly obese. I was a teen when I was referred to a dietician (not for obesity but for disordered eating). I was given some soup recipes! It was the 90s but no mental help referral at all. From there I went on to have 20 years of bulimia and even now suffer from disordered eating although I’ve got the purging under control. I’ve asked for help and been given dirt advice. The whole issue is massively complicated and shaming people who are overweight is never the answer.

Fully agree. I've seen a few dieticians over the years - none offered any remotely useful advice about my binge eating. I know "how" to cook healthily, I know "what" foods are unhealthy. But it's MENTAL. What I want to know is how to stop binge eating when I'm out of control. There's loads of support for alcoholics and people wanting to give up smoking - lots of mental health related ideas. But when it's about food, the "advice" is all about buying low fat yoghurt instead of normal, or lean mince, or whatever. It's not hitting the target which is the mind. I got an appointment with our GP surgery diabetic specialist GP and thought we may finally get somewhere - I spilled my guts about what I do, what triggers it, etc., - his "sage advice" was have a look on Facebook to see if there are any binge eating support groups!

@GertiMJN

The vaccination priority protocol is not prioritising which people are deserving of being protected soonest- its about the reducing the impact on the NHS of those people getting the virus.

This! Of course at risk people should get it first, regardless of how “deserving” they are or whether their BMI is their “fault” - because if they get COVID they are more likely to take up a hospital bed and precious resources. Others will not. So I’m very happy to let an obese person go in front of me - I’m more likely to need their hospital bed for a non COVID reason.

It doesn't matter how or why people have the condition that makes them next in line for the vaccine. The fact is, overweight people are more likely to have serious illness from covid, and therefore end up in hospital putting pressure on the NHS. People need to think about the bigger picture. The more people who are likely to become severely ill that are vaccinated, the faster we can get out of this mess.

Whatever the reason those who are in priority groups should of course be vaccinated first, if for no other reason than they are more at risk of severe illness and more likely to need hospital care.

The vaccinations aren't to treat the most worthy, it is to reduce nhs demand.

That said we really do need to have a grown up conversation about obesity at some point without people constantly taking offence. We do with smokers and binge drinkers, people who also may have mh issues or whatever. If you go to the gp with breathing problems the gp will ask if you smoke. If you go with bad knees they will ask if you're an over eater and encourage you to address that. Smokers and drinkers have to listen to health advice, over eaters need to too.

Problem is the doctors don't want to do anything to help the underlying causes of obesity. If you go to the doctors and say you're anorexic, you can get help. If you go because you've got a binge eating problem, you don't get help. There seems to be a stigma around eating disorders that cause obesity.

With gastric bands you have to be over a certain weight so some people eat a bit more to qualify. I hope the vaccine won't be like that but hopefully there is such a quick roll out of hte vaccine it won't matter that much who had it a little bit sooner than someone else. I would very much like to know how long its effects last however. Is it 4 - 6 months like people who catch covid seem then to be immune or 1 year or 2 years in other words will the people who vaccinated in Dec need to start the whole thing over again in June 2021?

When i was pregnant, my glucose test ce back fine, no trace of gestational diabetes, as there hasn't been in any pregnancy of mine. The midwife launched a notebook across the room after another dr had to find out why my results weren't on tbe system, and she announced "I don't know how but its fine!!!" dr looked mortified but said nothing. I posted on here and was told i must be mistaken

I was pregnant last year and the midwife who booked me in booked me an appointment with the diabetes team BEFORE I'd even had the glucose test. She said because of covid there was a backlog so she would book me in now as I probably would have GD due to my size.

When I saw the consultant a few weeks later he hit the fucking roof and went out to find her (same clinic so she mush have been working), he was ages. He came back and apologised for her rudeness.

I didn't have GD. I also didn't have any blood pressure problems which the same midwife said I would have. Ditto I didn't go into labour early or have a giant baby. I also stayed the same weight from booking until the day I gave birth.

We are all getting this vaccine shortly I don't understand people moaning who has got it first. We have been waiting a year for it a couple more months will not make much difference. Everyone needs to stop being so judgemental.

@Pulledamonica Problem is the doctors don't want to do anything to help the underlying causes of obesity. If you go to the doctors and say you're anorexic, you can get help. If you go because you've got a binge eating problem, you don't get help.

This could not be more wrong. Really incredible. How many times have you tried to access NHS help for anorexia or bulimia?