to find the reaction to BMI related vaccines.... interesting?

[staydazzling]

Ive noticed a lot of posts on twitter and of course Prof. Tracey from Facebook type posts bemoaning the fact people with a high BMI are getting an early vaccine, how undeserving we all are, its almost as if "we only care about your health" only applies if we are at a disadvantage in the health care system, and as soon as an outdated measurement gives us an advantage that 'care' is replaced by resentment 🤔. funny that, almost as if it was never motivated by care at all.
A big reason why ill have to tell noone ive had the vaccine i also have an immune condition that flags me not particularly serious, ive only ever been in hospital to give birth, many others like me, seeing lots of true colours recently. finally benefitting from the blunt instrument that is BMI and apparently that's no ok either! all very interesting.

so given that obese people are more likely to need medical intervention, ICU care etc. if they get covid, what would you rather OP? That they are prioritised for vaccine and less likely to need that intervention (and the cost of it) or that they have their wrists slapped and told to get to the back of the queue (meaning more people will need medical intervention, more children will lose parents etc etc etc)? What is the cheapest way to deal with this from a society as a whole perspective?

It doesn't matter at all why people are overweight. If overweight = at higher risk, then people are vaccinated because they are at higher risk.

People at risk need to be vaccinated as soon as possible, according to the 'hierarchy of risk' system that's sensibly been adopted.

No-one can gain or lose weight fast enough to change their risk categorisation, in relation to this vaccination programme, right now.

People who want to debate the ethics of preventable illness and injury and payment for their treatment, can do that at any time.

@Angel2702
You assume people with a BMI have stuffed their faces all lockdown? No possible way they could have had a higher BMI and been losing weight then?

I'm not the person that you asked but on the contrary, I've seen many posters on here who have done amazingly to reduce their BMI from obese to normal or near-normal since the start of COVID.

I've read it in many threads.

It seems to have been a really motivating thing for many people, They deserve huge praise and congratulations. And they prove it can be done.

People who are still morbidly obese over a year into this have not been losing weight.

As for eating disorders - I've suffered from anorexia and bulimia intermittently since I was 14 years old. I'm now 41. It's really insulting when people try to liken overeating to anorexia or bulimia.

I am well aware that BED (binge eating disorder) is a genuine eating disorder, however, again, over half of all the adults in the UK are overweight or obese . Are you really claiming that more than 50% of British adults have an eating disorder? Would that not make it somewhat meaningless?

It was calculated by risk rather than who is morally deserving

I have no views on priority lists for the vaccine to be honest.

However, I do hope that this will be a wake up call for a population of 63% obese or overweight people.

As a nation, it is a massive problem that needs to be addressed. I understand some of it is medical, however not to the numbers we see.

If we are so keen to 'save the NHS' then this issue will be addressed, as over the coing years, it will put a huge strain on the system.

People love a bit of fat bashing. Especially when they get to dress it up as terribly well meant concern for the NHS.

Can't even avoid the vile weight threads on this board now. Great.

@Rasclut

For me it's just ridiculous that someone with a bmi of 40 plus is pretending to be concerned about health when they have had a whole year to lose weight and chosen to spend that year stuffing their faces and posting stay the fuck at home all over social media. If obese people want the vaccine, they should take it, we will all get offered it so I dont care when they get offered it.

I believe obesity is caused by excess calories and is ALWAYS reversible if the patient is willing to eat less. I know there are medical and emotional reasons why people find it hard to eat less but I'm not about to engage with the 'you're mean, it's not my fault I'm obese' crowd. No, it's not your fault you're obese, its your choice to stay obese ffs!

I feel better for that rant!

Grow up. Clueless, nasty, vile.

I'm really fucking fat, my BMi is 43. That's because I was stupid and after spring lost of my adult life trying really hard to stay slim (I have a terrible metabolism and have to eat like a bird to stay slim, had my metabolic rate tested once as part of someone's PHD study and they were all shocked at how few calories I have to eat to it gain).

Anyway, I gained 12 stone in 2 years after eating what I wanted.

I'm losing again now, 4 stone so far.

But I'm a private patient, not registered with an NHS gp, so until a time I can book with just my NHS number, I won't be taking a vaccine from a thin person who didn't have a two year long party to get to be the size of a whale.

Spring lost - should say most.

Posters that talk about how they've lost an amazing amount of weight recently and the "it can be done" attitude... Well of course, we know that, diets are billion dollar industries, they're constantly sold to us as a miracle cure for all ills. But research shows that most people who lose a significant amount of weight will put it back on within five years- usually with more on top- and that the pattern of losing and gaining a lot of weight is very, very bad for your health.

If you want to evangelise about your amazing weight loss, wait until you've kept it off for a good few years.

(Disclaimer- I was obese and I lost the excess weight around ten years ago. I've kept it off but it created a weight/food obsession that I live with every single day. My health suffers. Sometimes, I become underweight. I always equate my worth with my weight. It's fucking bollocks, and on paper I am one of the success stories- I lost the weight and kept it off!)

I'm happy that everyone will receive the vaccine but it is difficult when most people know someone who's simply lazy and eats too much that ends up in the morbidly obese category. I have a boss who literally swallows whole sandwiches everyday as a snack every half hour instead of getting their work done.

That doesn't strike you at all as someone who is unwell @tippexlife? Just 'lazy and eats too much'?

If she was downing tools to snort a line of coke every half an hour would she just be 'lazy and parties too hard'? Perhaps depressed people are just 'lazy and cry too much'.

Christ, Mumsnet is hitting new lows today.

@unmarkedbythat

People love a bit of fat bashing. Especially when they get to dress it up as terribly well meant concern for the NHS.

For me it is not fat bashing, if they are more vulnerable then, they get the vaccination. Simple. What drives the need is irrelevant at present.

However, I do think that as a nation it needs to be addressed. People who are overweight are more prone to diabetes, cancer, strokes and heart attacks.

That is a fact, not opinion, or fat bashing. So, if we are to look to address this, then we need to start, somehow, in bringing the obestity levels of the country down.

We have been very quick to protect the NHS from Covid, yet, when we suggest that we protect it from weight impacted illnesses, it is classed as bashing.

It needs to be done with empathy and understanding, not shaming. But it needs to be addressed, and medical professionals should not be afraid to approach the subject.

Obesity is a complex disease - driven by genetics - underlying health issues - gut health - mental health issues - the list goes on and on.

Clearly, those with a high BMI need to be prioritised. I’m sure I read somewhere that our death rates are thought to be so high because of our higher percentage of obese people vs. other counties (although I’m taking this with a pinch of salt- it suits the government to blame the public, rather than their own incompetence).

New Zealand has a higher obesity rate than the UK.

@GoneCrazy

Obesity is a complex disease - driven by genetics - underlying health issues - gut health - mental health issues - the list goes on and on.

At the core it is based on excess calories.

If you put in more calories thatn your BMR + Expelled energy you wil put on weight, and vice versa.

What causes you to consume the calories and or not exercise is driven by a multitude of complex issues. So just telling someone to eat less is futile IMO.

I really wish that hating me and being in denial about your weight reduced the r rate as much as you all believe it will! Noone is saying your excuses arent valid, noone is saying its not hard, even I am sympathetic. But your weight will affect your health, even if you do have a bloody covid vaccine

Very sensible posts from SomersetHamlyn.

@OnceIWasAnApe Posters that talk about how they've lost an amazing amount of weight recently and the "it can be done" attitude... Well of course, we know that, diets are billion dollar industries, they're constantly sold to us as a miracle cure for all ills. But research shows that most people who lose a significant amount of weight will put it back on within five years- usually with more on top- and that the pattern of losing and gaining a lot of weight is very, very bad for your health. If you want to evangelise about your amazing weight loss, wait until you've kept it off for a good few years.

Not sure who that's addressed to, but I was speaking about other people I've noticed on here, not myself. And not a single one of them has 'evangelised' - they've simply shared that it was the kick up the arse they needed to get them to do it. And I think they should be praised for it, not mocked and told that they'll put it all back on again.

(Disclaimer- I was obese and I lost the excess weight around ten years ago. I've kept it off but it created a weight/food obsession that I live with every single day. My health suffers. Sometimes, I become underweight. I always equate my worth with my weight. It's fucking bollocks, and on paper I am one of the success stories- I lost the weight and kept it off!)

And? I also track my weight obsessively. I've had eatng disorders for nearly 30 years, on and off.

In the past ten years you've probably avoided any number of illnesses and co-morbidities that would have come with continuing to be obese. You've very possibly avoided stroke, cancer, diabetes, arthritis, heart attacks, gout, even having to use a wheelchair.

You're not an 'in quotation marks' success story. You are a success story. If the price of that is obsessing about what you eat, so be it.

@hatedbytheDailyMail

Are people still banging on about BMI not being useful or not taking into account blah blah blah? It's such bollocks. If your BMI says you are obese, you are obese, there's no getting away from it. Mine does, I'm fat. Why is there so much denial about it? If you're clinically indicated for an earlier vaccine, you should have it.

No, only one person on the thread said anything about BMI not being useful/accurate. Then there's you and one other poster - SomersetHamlyn - having your rants about BMI denialism.

At the start of the pandemic I had a BMI of 53. I'd had that most of my adult life. Also at the beginning of the pandemic I got diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. Great, I thought, being fat has caused this. But I was wrong. I started losing weight immediately after starting CPAP therapy. My consultant said it;s extremely common. People with untreated sleep apnea cannot control their the diet. The body needs energy and if it doesn't get it from sleep it will drive you to get it from somewhere else, but as it's the wrong type of energy the drive is never satisfied.

I've lost 27 kg and my BMI is currently 42 and still going down. I do still have days where I can't stop eating high energy foods but they're not frequent and ALWAYS coincide with a bad night for apneas.

I've been extremely lucky that I finally have the answer for why I had no control. I feel nothing but sympathy for people who still don't know their root cause. Because if someone has a BMI of 40 or over, there is always something else going on. People with healthy bodies and healthy minds do not do that to themselves.

Get people into contact sport pay for contact injuries.

People who eat bacon refused heart treatment.

People who having a speeding ticket pay if they crash.

People who have pets, or rugs pay if they trip over them.

People who wear high heals pay for ankle twists or falls.

I mean let's not stop at Covid vaccines for high BMI folk, let's go the whole hog.

In fact let's just privatise our whole medical system. Low insurance basic care, like the USA where you can pay 30,000 dollars to give birth.

It wouldn't stop at BMI.

If judgemental people want to question each and every vaccine to ensure the recipient is "worthy" just let them get on with it, they are clearly a bunch of jealous cocks. You telling me they wouldn't snap up a vaccine before their "turn" if they could?

He without sin cast the first stone, I believe it is.

@fromdownwest

OK, but I was talking about the fat bashing that we all know does go on dressed up as concern for the NHS. The snideness like the fax confusion the other day by that poster who just couldn't understaaaaaaaand why anyone would ever eat potatoes alongside salmon en croute and pretended that was concern for the impact of obesity on the NHS. The shitty comments like ones some pp have made about overweight people. The patronising delivery of information as if overweight people don't know perfectly well that being overweight has implications for a range of health issues.

@unmarkedbythat - I didn't see that post, but more importantly, why would you NOT have spuds with fish?