to find the reaction to BMI related vaccines.... interesting?

[staydazzling]

Ive noticed a lot of posts on twitter and of course Prof. Tracey from Facebook type posts bemoaning the fact people with a high BMI are getting an early vaccine, how undeserving we all are, its almost as if "we only care about your health" only applies if we are at a disadvantage in the health care system, and as soon as an outdated measurement gives us an advantage that 'care' is replaced by resentment 🤔. funny that, almost as if it was never motivated by care at all.
A big reason why ill have to tell noone ive had the vaccine i also have an immune condition that flags me not particularly serious, ive only ever been in hospital to give birth, many others like me, seeing lots of true colours recently. finally benefitting from the blunt instrument that is BMI and apparently that's no ok either! all very interesting.

For me it's just ridiculous that someone who is brimming over with spite and hatefulness is pretending to be concerned about society when they have had a whole year to work on their unpleasant personality and chosen to spend that year perfecting their self-righteousness and posting LOSE SOME FUCKING WEIGHT!!! over social media. If hateful people want the vaccine, they should take it, we will all get offered it so I dont care when they get offered it.

I believe hatefulness is caused by excess insecurity and is ALWAYS reversible if the patient is willing to look in the mirror. I know there are medical and emotional reasons why people find it hard to curb their unpleasantness but I'm not about to engage with the 'I might be mean but you're fat, which is worse' crowd. No, it's not your fault you're mean, its your choice to stay mean ffs!

People with a BMI are more likely to die. It makes sense they get the vaccine!
It makes sense to keep them out of our hospitals and not strain the NHS.
It just makes logical sense they get the vaccine first.
Whether you think it’s right or not just matter. It’s logical!!!!

As far as I’m concerned, anyone for whatever reason more likely to contract the virus and a) spread it, and/or b) have it badly enough to take up a hospital bed, should be a priority for the vaccine, because that’s the quickest way we’re going to get on top of this bastard thing.

Rasclut, perhaps you should be penalised for your 'unhealthy habits'? See? Not very nice is it? And not very logical. Surely if we were in the business of 'punishing' people, you would be on the list? I really get angry when this stuff gets brought down to Value Judgements. And it's always the Fatties who are the first targets, by the hard of thinking.

YANBU, I couldn’t give a shit what people think. I’m getting the vaccine this week due to high BMI. I am also a carer. At the end of the day it’s been decided for whatever reason that this is my place in the queue and I guess a vaccine will be cheaper than treating me for Covid. If we are going to apply moral judgements for the vaccine and medical treatment where would it end.

Are people still banging on about BMI not being useful or not taking into account blah blah blah? It's such bollocks. If your BMI says you are obese, you are obese, there's no getting away from it. Mine does, I'm fat. Why is there so much denial about it?
If you're clinically indicated for an earlier vaccine, you should have it.

It's true that morbidly obese people should get the vaccine first, for the same reason that anyone who is more likely to end up hospitalised if they catch COVID should get it first.

It's also true that morbidly obese people are in fact far more likely to die from the huge number of other diseases that are made dramatically more likely at that weight (hence 'morbidly' obese).

Cancer (most cancers), heart disease, stroke, dementia, diabetes, kidney and liver diseases, gallbladder disease, arthritis, et cetera.

It is true that there has been some cognitive dissonance on this site and elsewhere in the past year, with people who are morbidly obese panicking about their outcome if they catch COVID, while apparently less worried about the many many more diseases that become a near-certainty if they continue to be morbidly obese.

It is true that people who only qualify for the vaccination because they are morbidly obese are more responsible for their condition than many other people (for example, those with cystic fibrosis or leukaemia).

All these things can be, and are, simultaneously true.

I think people are mainly anxious while waiting their turn and this fuels resentment towards people who they see as 'less-deserving'. As the roll out progresses this will cease. I fleetingly felt this towards friends who are obese/unpaid carers (in the loosest sense) having their vaccine before me, an asthmatic. I try so hard to maintain my weight and fitness to keep my asthma under control so of course I felt a bit annoyed (envious!) as I am scared myself. If vaccinating obsese people keeps the NHS free to treat people who need it and restart other treatments again then good.

@Etherealhedgehog

The prioritisation for vaccines isn't based on some kind of ranking of deservingness - otherwise they obviously wouldn't have started with people in their 90s who are on their last legs anyway! It's designed to reduce pressure on the NHS and society as quickly as possible by reducing the level of serious illness and death. On those grounds it absolutely makes sense to prioritise people with high BMI as we know they are at higher risk of hospitalisation/death.

People who think that those with high BMI are undeserving and should be deprioritised presumably should also be in favour of all sorts of other criteria being used - deprioritise anyone with a history of law-breaking, prioritise anyone who does volunteer work etc etc. Except that would be nonsense, obviously. This is a practical public health exercise, not some kind of biblical reckoning.

I agree otherwise how do we accept that eg Rose West has had her vaccination?

I think people have got the wrong impression about this vaccine.

It is to keep people out of hospital. So hospitals and the NHS can cope.

Obese people are far more difficult to intubate. Far more difficult means more doctors and more nurses taken up treating them.

This isnt about deservedness. Everyone deserves to have the vaccine. Some people need to be prioritised.

One benefit of vaccinating people with a high BMI over those without is that it helps us to seperate the people with compassion from the utter cunts. It's quite a useful tool in that respect.

Fat people are fair game I've not seen it elsewhere but it's rife on Mumsnet the superior smugnness is
astonishing, youu can't go after an alcoholic because it's an illness so let's go after fatties who shovel food in are repugnant, these people who post this drivel about vaccine need to have a word with themselves .

Conquest

😂

i have mh issues am over 40 bmi-i wouldnt be bragging about getting the vaccine (which i havent got yetbtw) but theres lots of reasons why people are overweight we shouldnt judge

The way I see it, someone could be overweight for any reason, it could be entirely due to their own choices, I still don't want them to die.

I was underweight until I had children. Then I had a traumatic birth with DC1, and my body reset itself with a much slower metabolism. My body shape changed, I could no longer do my job, and I became depressed.

I have been overweight ever since (19yrs). I can no longer do the sports I used to enjoy, and although I walk my dogs most days, walking just isn't enough to shift the weight. Constantly eating 1000 -1500 calories a day is no way to live for ever. I don't eat many carbs, and am careful not to over eat. But I remain very overweight. It is not as easy as just eating less and moving more. It's also very depressing.

I'm over weight, a lot over weight and the eat less is really not that simple in losing weight. I eat less, I maintain carb and sugar control, but the weight didnt go on quickly so It aint gonna come off quick just because I'm not filling up the calories.

Coincidently, I've had both doses of th vaccine because I'm an NHS worker. Not because I'm undeserving fattie.

@TeenMinusTests

I think if you start saying that conditions are the fault of the person and that therefore they shouldn't be prioritised for treatment, you are on very dodgy ground.

Does this lead to:

• not treating drunk people or people who have taken drugs
• not treating people with skiing or race car or horse riding accidents

-etc

Exactly, to add to your list

• not treating people with oral cancer as a result of smoking and drinking
• not treating people with COPD due to smoking
• not treating people with coronary heart disease due to sedentary lifestyles
• not treating people with cannabis induced scizophrenia

there are so many conditions where 'lifestyle' choices can have an impact

Unfortunately obesity is demonised in society.

Maybe we shouldn't treat people with personality disorders (looking at Rasclut)

@Rasclut

For me it's just ridiculous that someone with a bmi of 40 plus is pretending to be concerned about health when they have had a whole year to lose weight and chosen to spend that year stuffing their faces and posting stay the fuck at home all over social media. If obese people want the vaccine, they should take it, we will all get offered it so I dont care when they get offered it.

I believe obesity is caused by excess calories and is ALWAYS reversible if the patient is willing to eat less. I know there are medical and emotional reasons why people find it hard to eat less but I'm not about to engage with the 'you're mean, it's not my fault I'm obese' crowd. No, it's not your fault you're obese, its your choice to stay obese ffs!

I feel better for that rant!

So does this apply to all eating disorders? We just tell people with anorexia to eat more? Tell people with addiction to just stop? It’s that easy?

You assume people with a BMI have stuffed their faces all lockdown? No possible way they could have had a higher BMI and been losing weight then?

I'm happy that everyone will receive the vaccine but it is difficult when most people know someone who's simply lazy and eats too much that ends up in the morbidly obese category. I have a boss who literally swallows whole sandwiches everyday as a snack every half hour instead of getting their work done.

Am I happy she's in front of me who works hard to keep my weight under control? No, but am I glad her getting the vaccine will hopefully contribute to society getting back on track? Yes.

@SomersetHamlyn

I'd like to know if all of the people who think BMI is an 'outdated' or 'stupid' measurement are therefore claiming that those with a BMI of over 40 (the only people who are getting vaccinated on that basis) might in fact be healthy?

I wondered this as well? I just checked the BMI calculator and it does ask about ethnicity and physical activity now which I don't think it did before? For my height I would have to more than double my weight to have a BMI of 40 and I am not under weight. I do think most people in this category will likely fall into other groups as well, many will be diabetic. I do feel that every person vaccinated is a bonus but there is a real sense of "vaccine envy" among people who are way down the list which might account for some of the attitudes.

So does this apply to all eating disorders? We just tell people with anorexia to eat more? Tell people with addiction to just stop? It’s that easy

Can we not pretend that every obese person has an eating disorder or a mental health issue or an addiction? Like most people, I'm fat because I'm quite lazy and I like things that are bad for me.

@LimitIsUp

Unfortunately obesity is demonised in society.

28.0% of adults in England are obese and a further 36.2% are overweight but not obese. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03336/

That's over 50% are overweight or obese. Not really a beleaguered minority, is it? More like the actual majority of adults.

What do you think we should do instead of 'demonising' obesity? Celebrate it?

It causes cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, dementia, arthritis, and many, many other diseases, all of which contribute long-term to the impossible burden on the NHS. Let alone the impact on the individuals themselves and their families.

This is not OK. None of it is OK.

And in every thread, you'll get the outright denialism. No one eats 1000 calories a day and maintains an obese BMI. Sorry, it's just - simply - not - true. There are a tiny, tiny number of people with genuine metabolic issues. Tiny. Not 28% of the adults in the UK. But people will not be honest with themselves and the situation just gets worse and worse and worse.

I think there are several reasons why this is happening- can I say in advance that I don’t think like this- but I think a fair proportion of the population do.

• Lots of people see being overweight as a ‘cosmetic’ issue first and foremost- and don’t see the reasons why the vaccine is being offered as valid due to this.
• It’s often perceived as ‘self inflicted’ and therefore there’s a perception that people don’t ‘deserve’ help. This is clearly a daft (and dangerous!) way of thinking but I do think it’s a common one.
• People lose sight of the vaccine allocation methodology- it’s not about worthiness, it’s about reducing hospital admissions so we can get out of this mess ASAP.

Clearly, those with a high BMI need to be prioritised. I’m sure I read somewhere that our death rates are thought to be so high because of our higher percentage of obese people vs. other counties (although I’m taking this with a pinch of salt- it suits the government to blame the public, rather than their own incompetence).

As an aside, I do hope that this crisis encourages all of us to make healthier choices if at all possible. The NHS is on its knees and I think we’ll all have to take more responsibility for our own health going forward- I don’t trust that it’ll be able to treat people in the future in the same way it does now. But I am very aware that it’s not as simple as ‘just eat less’, and there needs to be system wide change in many many areas in order to drive this.