to find the reaction to BMI related vaccines.... interesting?

[staydazzling]

Ive noticed a lot of posts on twitter and of course Prof. Tracey from Facebook type posts bemoaning the fact people with a high BMI are getting an early vaccine, how undeserving we all are, its almost as if "we only care about your health" only applies if we are at a disadvantage in the health care system, and as soon as an outdated measurement gives us an advantage that 'care' is replaced by resentment 🤔. funny that, almost as if it was never motivated by care at all.
A big reason why ill have to tell noone ive had the vaccine i also have an immune condition that flags me not particularly serious, ive only ever been in hospital to give birth, many others like me, seeing lots of true colours recently. finally benefitting from the blunt instrument that is BMI and apparently that's no ok either! all very interesting.

i do have other underlying @SomersetHamlyn, and why is me getting it before others an issue? , someone will always be getting it before 'others'

I never said it was a problem. I was asking why you think people with a morbidly obese BMI are being prioritised for the vaccine if morbid obesity, in your opinion, poses no health risk?

Ive never said it poses no risks to health, only that BMI is an outdated tool which it is.

@staydazzling

Ive never said it poses no risks to health, only that BMI is an outdated tool which it is.

I don't think it's an outdated tool. It's a guide and like all guides it's one part of a big picture.

At the moment my BMI shows I am overweight (lockdown has meant less activity, longer working hours and general misery which makes me eat more and burn less). I don't need the BMI to tell me I am fat because I can see it and feel it. But it does help me understand how significant that weight gain has been.

Equally my DH was obese and has due to covid lost weight and is now formally in the overweight and for him seeing how the loses has reduced his BMI and risk of covid has helped.

But neither of us use BMI to say I must be this number to be healthy and fit.

Fat people aren't anymore deserving of the vaccine than others, but unfortunately they're statistically more likely to burden the nhs and cost money in the long run.

So whilst we have the nhs and free medical care, it makes sense to prioritise them in the vaccine.

Whether it makes sense that the lifestyle choices of many obese people should cost the nhs and taxpayers so much money....well, that's a much bigger debate and not limited to obesity.

Of course people who are morbidly obese should get the vaccine first as statistics show obesity is a significant risk factor. The aim is to reduce hospital admissions and deaths as quickly as possible so the rest of society can have a more normal life as quickly as possible.
However, obesity is also a risk factor for Type 2 diabetes, heart issues, blood pressure etc etc and it shortens life expectancy. Obesity and the normalisation of it in our society is a big problem and it costs the NHS a huge amount of money every year. Smoking has gone down, obesity rates need to come down too in the long run so the debate needs to be had how that will be achieved and what help needs to be available to people. Many people have become too fat and it has been normalised. This isn’t about fat shaming, it is acknowledging a problem. We cannot help becoming older but most of us can try and lose weight. Some need more discipline, others will need a lot more help, both in mental health and different medications. Lots of medications trigger excessive weight gain and in many cases, struggling with weight is a life long issue, stemming from childhood.

@TeenMinusTests

I think if you start saying that conditions are the fault of the person and that therefore they shouldn't be prioritised for treatment, you are on very dodgy ground.

Does this lead to:

• not treating drunk people or people who have taken drugs
• not treating people with skiing or race car or horse riding accidents

-etc

This, absolutely. Rightly or wrongly, whether we can afford it or not, I don’t think that refusing to treat people by ever more restrictive guidelines, is the way forward. If people have what are perceived as habits or addictions that are unhealthy, there’s a reason for that. When I was working in A & E, we’d have teens who had taken drugs, and they would be treated exactly as someone who was drunk, had an accident, or any other scenario you care to name. It’s the thin end of the wedge to decline to treat. Personal responsibility is one thing, blaming is something else. If someone is overweight, and entitled to the vaccine, then they should be offered it, if they want support with weight loss, they should receive it. If not, that should be OK too. I realise this is not going to be a popular opinion, or perhaps a realistic one, but I’ve seen too much judgement to deny someone something they clearly need.

I’m fat. I’m 5ft 3 and was about 2 stone over my upper healthy bmi recommendation. On my small frame it really does show.

I have lost weight by eating healthily. I’ve not touched chocolate in the last month and upped my veg consumption. No fad diet, just being more mindful. I’m back in my old clothes and feeling healthy. Still a stone to go before I’m happy.

I admit, my fatness was caused by eating too much, not moving enough. Mainly by eating too much. And too much sugary stuff.

One of my main motivators is covid... I do not want to die because I got covid and people put it down to “well she was fat”.

I think covid should have been a wake up call for some and if you can (of course some obese people have underlying conditions) then extra effort should have been made to lose weight and prevent getting sick or dying.

Not wanting to die of covid really is good motivation to drop the pounds.

My bmi is high because I have a chronic pain and chronic fatigue condition. I used to run marathons. It's hard to not gain weight when all you can do is sit. I'm also over 40 so weight loss has become harder anyway.

@Willyoujustbequiet

Rasclut obesity is certainly not always the result of calories. That's a very ignorant thing to say. There a numerous medical conditions which cause obesity.

My poor mum had heart failure and kidney failure for years. She was morbidly obese due to fluid and lymphedema She could not exercise much as she could hardly move. She would go into hospital and lose stones in weight in weeks simply from them draining/managing the fluid.

Having said that there is a woman on my fb been offered the vaccine as her bmi was too high - however this was recorded at her Gp ages ago and she has since become a normal weight. She is going ahead and people are congratulating her for beating the system

She must be group 6. Will the GP hubs gatekeep ie look at her, look at the reason she is in group 6, weigh her and then decline her the vaccine?

@UseOfWeapons lovely Post. The sad thing is though that ai found when I asked for help to lose weight I was told I didn't qualify. Not based on BMI but based on the fact I paid for my prescriptions.

@staydazzling

Ive never said it poses no risks to health, only that BMI is an outdated tool which it is.

You keep saying that BMI is 'outdated'. Why? What are you intending people to think or conclude from this?

Do you believe that people with a BMI over 40 are healthy?

I feel so happy when the day’s vaccination figures are given. I don’t care who’s receiving them. Every single one is helping to protect all of us and gets us that little bit closer to an end of this.

BMI isn't outdated in my case🙈
The only thing with BMI is that, as with everything, some common sense needs to be apllied sometimes. But otherwise it does seem to usually fit ime.
It doesn't tell you wether you are healthy or not. Just whether you are healthy weight. Then you must apply the common sense and see whether you are more fat than a muscle, hence still in risk of some issues like heart disease and such or not.

Bmi is a part of the tool set determining health and risks not the only tool.

I agree @DenisetheMenace and I think that's the consensus on this thread: all vaccinations are good news and ideally should go to the most clinically vulnerable.

I'm just asking OP why she continually describes BMI as 'outdated' or 'useless' and what she hopes we will conclude from that - that morbidly obese people SHOULDN'T be vaccinated, perhaps?

it IS outdated, and a blunt tool,
its well known
BMI is often a stick used to beat over the head of overweight and to deny them certain aspects of medical care,
now it isn't... thats a good thing.
is that clear enough or does it require a diagram?

No diagram needed. Just a very simple yes or no. Do you think people can be healthy with a morbidly obese BMI of 40 or more?

Yes or no?

@SomersetHamlyn

No diagram needed. Just a very simple yes or no. Do you think people can be healthy with a morbidly obese BMI of 40 or more?

Yes or no?

I'm just about getting away with it. I'm 41. 18 months ago my BMI was 52. Now it's 42.

I was pregnant last year, I didn't gain a pound all the way through and now I'm losing again.

My blood pressure and everything else tested for was perfect, always has been. I can't run - but I couldn't when I was 10 stone and a size 8/10, I was just as healthy/unhealthy then and still got puffed out running up stairs.

But I'm unhappy being so big and I know health implications will catch up to me eventually if I don't lose weight.

Same here @Fuckadoodledoooo but I am younger. I was above 40 all the way to 51 only few years luckily.

I am painfully aware that it would take a year or so for all the associated health issues to arrive.

Interesting