Employer disadvantaging and threatening staff who haven’t had the vaccine

[MrsFCastle]

My partner works in health and social care. He isn’t an anti vaxxer. Just feels it’s too soon. His employer is furious and is threatening to stop offering shifts if they don’t get it. I’m genuinely concerned about his job security. Can they do this? Helpful replies only please. This isn’t a thread about anti/pro vax.

No problem, it was me that wrote that not Pensionista. My 70 % was from a Hugo Gye tweet. Think it was the weekly breakdown from ONS or maybe PHE? I posted the link upthread so can find it if needed.

I think we already know there are big variations between age groups/ ethnic minorities and I think probably class too in vaccine enthusiasm so I am pretty certain that 94% of my colleagues aren't planning to have it. There's maybe a third had it / definitely getting it.

We are not elderly care which may make a difference.

I do agree with some other posters that vaccine uptake would rise if you needed a vaccine to fly.

The 94% is of course of the survey group, not the whole population - although you would hope the ONS have some clue about how to get a representative sample.

Uptake is bound to vary in different subgroups. I would expect it to be lower once we get to the under 50’s, for sure. And as you say, there is already evidence of lower uptake in poorer areas and non-white ethnic groups.

That could in part be to do with ease of access, e.g. having time off and transport to get to vaccination centres, non-English speakers not knowing what’s going on etc. Hopefully there will be campaigns to address these things.

Access to vaccine and the risk of needing time off for side effects are real issues that need addressing. My Trust is allowing everyone who has been vaccinated 48 hours off for side effects if needed, without this time going on a person's sickness absence record. That kind of thing really helps, but isn't readily transferable to the private sector where employment is insecure and sick pay nonexistent. It's really showing up how poor the system is.

Apparently we've had a 99% uptake in our county.

@dividedwefall

With an ageing population, fewer EU migrants and the possibility of plenty of choice when it comes to lower paid jobs, I think the care sector might soon think twice about mandating vaccination for a disease that will probably be long long soon anyway.

What will happen if younger people refuse and the care and health sector struggle to recruit even more than they do now?

Working in HR in a care setting we have found it very easy to recruit in the last year. Plenty of people looking for work and training that will ensure a secure job. We haven't needed to advertise, just choose from the CVs we've received.

It’s interesting how different the responses are to this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4179050-To-ask-Health-care-staff-treating-me-if-theyve-had-their-covid-vaccine

I’m one of the ones waiting for longer term data

“I’d rather it was tested on the rest of society before I decide if I’m willing to do my bit”

@MintyMabel

I’m one of the ones waiting for longer term data

“I’d rather it was tested on the rest of society before I decide if I’m willing to do my bit”

Alternatively, ‘I’m worried about potential side effects impacting on my health and family’.

@MintyMabel

I’m one of the ones waiting for longer term data

“I’d rather it was tested on the rest of society before I decide if I’m willing to do my bit”

I am waiting for it to be delivered in a form other than injection (which I have read is being developed).

Alternatively, ‘I’m worried about potential side effects impacting on my health and family’.

Are these people prepared to isolate until they deign to have a vaccine though? I somehow doubt it.

I am waiting for it to be delivered in a form other than injection (which I have read is being developed).

That’s fair enough for needle phobics. I’m really not good with needles and had mine today, but I would have preferred not to have a needle. That’s a personal issue.

Alternatively, ‘I’m worried about potential side effects impacting on my health and family’.

Which is still “I’d rather it was tested on the rest of society first”. Selfish.

And more specifically, “rather it was tested on the most vulnerable in society first”

@TheKeatingFive

Alternatively, ‘I’m worried about potential side effects impacting on my health and family’.

Are these people prepared to isolate until they deign to have a vaccine though? I somehow doubt it.

I certainly won't be, but then I pretty much haven't anyway since this started.

Minty You kind of remind me of the Queen and her bizarre message last week about 'duty', which was ridiculous. But she's 94 so I can understand it from her.

Nobody was bothered when I went on about the French being more vaccine hesitant. I wanted people to think about whether it was likely that one nation was more selfish than another.

But it seems no one is worried about calling the French stupid and selfish.

So how about black and Asian people. We know that in the UK at least those communities have a lower take up of the vaccine. Are the "it's selfish" posters really saying there is more selfishness among black and Asian people?

Or are people reducing a multi-faceted issue to a moral crusade?

Thanks for the link DaisyDukes. I only read a few posts but yes an interesting contrast.

You kind of remind me of the Queen and her bizarre message last week about 'duty', which was ridiculous. But she's 94 so I can understand it from her.

You don’t have to be 94 to believe in a collectively working for what is best for society. If you want to call it duty, you do that. I see it as playing my part in getting us all out of this shitshow.

So how about black and Asian people. We know that in the UK at least those communities have a lower take up of the vaccine. Are the "it's selfish" posters really saying there is more selfishness among black and Asian people?

There is a whole load of history and backstory that leads to those communities distrusting governments, messaging, healthcare etc. Be careful about making such a glib comparison.

My point about selfishness wasn’t about those who refuse ever to take the vaccine. It is about those claiming they will only do it once they see people, including the most vulnerable people in society don’t suffer any ill effects from it. That’s a pretty shitty thing to do.

Hello, @southeastdweller I see you're back.

You remember when you turned up your nose at a representative sample of 6,000 British residents, I wondered what better source you have.

Do you have one?

@PigletJohn

Hello, *@southeastdweller* I see you're back.

You remember when you turned up your nose at a representative sample of 6,000 British residents, I wondered what better source you have.

Do you have one?

Of course I don’t, what was the point of you asking me?

To see if there is any foundation for your opinion.

No.

You are just avoiding information you don't like.

You're not naive enough to take at face value stats produced by the government...or are you?

Just keep ignoring anything you don't like.

Avoid adult discussion.

There is a whole load of history and backstory that leads to those communities distrusting governments, messaging, healthcare etc. Be careful about making such a glib comparison.

Ha ha, I can't work out how it's me being glib and not you Minty. If black people are allowed to have a back story and not want a vaccine because of it then why not white people? Are Eastern Europeans the right kind of white people who are allowed to wait for the vaccine as they have a back story?

My point about selfishness wasn’t about those who refuse ever to take the vaccine. It is about those claiming they will only do it once they see people, including the most vulnerable people in society don’t suffer any ill effects from it. That’s a pretty shitty thing to do.

What if ethnic minority groups are more likely to believe that? You'll be in exactly the same logical dead end. You don't want to call black people more likely to be shitty do you?

If "selfishness" and "shitty" actions were measurable how can you possibly say they vary between ethnic minorities and from country to country? Surely if something is shitty in the UK then it's shitty in France?

People are selcting an action they find personally easy and designating the out group for whom it's a harder choice as selfish. Was that equally true of the flu vaccine? Because I never saw the threads on here? Is it equally true of organ donation?

I hope all you unselfish posters are signed up to donate bone marrow to a stranger because it's pretty shitty if not. I hope you all don't have an SUV or take lots of flights because that contributes to climate change and can lead to EXTINCTION. Which is pretty shitty. I hope none of you ever buy any plastic packaging because a dolphin could die!!!

Every day all of us take choices which suit us but may have an adverse impact on others. Generally we do not police the choice of others. Most of us don't go full Extinction Rebellion even though the death toll from climate change is potentially higher than covid.

Why is the vaccine choice an indicator of virtue and not holiday flights?

I'm all on board with increasing uptake of the vaccine but I think the moral crusade has no impact on uptake so why are people doing it?

What are the issues for some BAME communities? Is it a religious/halal type objection or something else?

It is Bangladeshi and Pakistani families I believe now more than black who have most issues with the voluntary vaccine. I am happy it is voluntary even if some groups choose not to have it. I would rather have more freedom even if that means more deaths including of me and my family. Also we have a UK 94% rate of vaccination in those offered it because it is voluntary . It is one reason our vaccine use in the UK is very good. No force. Same with the flu jab in the NHS every year.#

The FT has an interest article today about the ultra orthodox in Israel and the choice of some, not all, of them not to have the vaccine.

21:00 southeastdweller

Are these people prepared to isolate until they deign to have a vaccine though? I somehow doubt it.

“I certainly won't be, but then I pretty much haven't anyway since this started.”

Why? Does your health concern not extend beyond yourself and your own family?