Employer disadvantaging and threatening staff who haven’t had the vaccine

[MrsFCastle]

My partner works in health and social care. He isn’t an anti vaxxer. Just feels it’s too soon. His employer is furious and is threatening to stop offering shifts if they don’t get it. I’m genuinely concerned about his job security. Can they do this? Helpful replies only please. This isn’t a thread about anti/pro vax.

[Saywhatyoumeanandmeanwhatyousa]

It depends on his contact. Could you explain why you think it's acceptable for the people who he comes into contact with through his work to be close the to someone who had so far not taken up the offer of a vaccine. What are his reasons?

[Boph]

Too soon for what? Do you mean he hasn't been called up? Should be priority as a HCW.
I have no problem with employers insisting on vaccination in fact I would want to know if a HCP was unvaccinated.

[titchy]

It’s become impossible to have any sane discussion about covid vaccines at all.

Given that millions upon millions have been vaccinated there is no longer a requirement for any sort of discussion. If there was an issue we'd have thousands suffering ill effects.

[reformedcharacters]

@titchy

It’s become impossible to have any sane discussion about covid vaccines at all.

Given that millions upon millions have been vaccinated there is no longer a requirement for any sort of discussion. If there was an issue we'd have thousands suffering ill effects.

There’s no data on any long-term effects.

[AlexaShutUp]

If he is in a frontline role where he could potentially be putting others at risk, then I think it's fair enough to be honest.

It's his choice to have the vaccine or not have it, but he shouldn't be able to choose to put other people at risk.

[sereema92]

I have every sympathy with staff who can't have the vaccine for genuine reasons. 17+ million vaccinated in uk! If he thinks it is too soon for him, he should get another job.

[Purplerayhan]

He should get another job. Not a dentist though because they have to have TB vac to protect themselves and their clients. Because of the nature of their job. He doesn't want it? Fine, but don't do a job where other people can suffer because of his lack of having it.

[Heyahun]

Too soon?? Wtf he works on healthcare - he should have the vaccine

[CeibaTree]

What does he mean by too soon though? These are the vaccinations that have been approved, they are not suddenly going to drastically change in a months time or whatever. Or does he mean he thinks other people should be prioritised to get the vaccine before him? Either way he is not in the line of work where he can work from home and so his employers have to look at things on a larger scale and keep their staff and service users safe and this means people such as your DH getting the vaccine.

[Jangle33]

I think content of contract is irrelevant here and a red herring. Also the idea that requiring a vaccine will be only an issue for new employees is a red herring.

I think it’s entirely reasonable in the U.K., especially for healthcare workers that as an employer determines in order to comply with its health and safety obligations to provide a safe place of work/protect its patients that the staff members must have the vaccine.

[MixedUpFiles]

From a patient perspective, I think a patient should be able to request anyone providing close care has been vaccinated. It’s likely this is going to happen and rotas are going to need to be made with that in mind. People with medical exemptions or who don’t want the vaccine could be placed in other positions, but I think priority should be given to the medically exempt.

[southeastdweller]

His employer is acting like a dick and until he gets your partners contract changed is making a rod for his own back. I guess your partner is on a zero hours contract.

[titchy]

There’s no data on any long-term effects.

The mechanisms used to illicit a response have been in use for years. The way vaccines work is by telling the body what to do when it encounters the virus being vaxed against - they do that within a couple of weeks after innoculation. Not over a long time.

[SirGawain]

@reformedcharacters

Could he lie? Is proof provided with the vaccine?

They may not be able to sack him for not having the
Vaccine be they certainly could for lying about it.
How is it too soon, the virus is here now and won’t wait for him to decide.
Also it’s rather hard on vulnerable people who catch COVID.

[reformedcharacters]

@titchy

There’s no data on any long-term effects.

The mechanisms used to illicit a response have been in use for years. The way vaccines work is by telling the body what to do when it encounters the virus being vaxed against - they do that within a couple of weeks after innoculation. Not over a long time.

www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

[MrsFCastle]

He had a permanent contact for37.5 hours a week. I’ve suggested to him he gets a copy of his contract and join a union.

[itsgettingwierd]

Lots of requirements are made for jobs.

HEP B, DBS, masks etc

I think the requirement for COVID vaccine may go the same way.

No one has to have the vaccine but like some vaccinations for travel it may become a condition of employment in some sectors.

People don't have to seek employment in a sector where it's required or they don't like the conditions of employment.

I think as he is already contracted for set hours this is a case where seeking union advice is necessary.

[AdriannaP]

Always so convenient for people to wait for everyone else to get a vaccine so it also reduces the risk for them. Just selfish nothing else.

[BlueTimes]

@reformedcharacters but that’s not applicable to the AZ/Oxford vaccine which has been around for a long time in a slightly different way and has nothing to do with mRNA.

[BlueTimes]

@MrsFCastle

He had a permanent contact for37.5 hours a week. I’ve suggested to him he gets a copy of his contract and join a union.

Has he worked there for more than two years?

[janj2301]

Not having the vaccination is not protected by discrimation law so employers can do this, I work in the NHS and I think it's perfectly reasonable for employers to insist

[titchy]

[quote BlueTimes]@reformedcharacters but that’s not applicable to the AZ/Oxford vaccine which has been around for a long time in a slightly different way and has nothing to do with mRNA.[/quote]
@reformedcharacters link is also clear in how long mRNA vaxes have been studied for - 10 years plus!

[devildeepbluesea]

Until this has been tested at the Employment Tribunal, no one knows for sure.

My own feeling (I do work in a related field) is that it's likely to be legal to dismiss someone in these circumstances.

[southeastdweller]

@janj2301

Not having the vaccination is not protected by discrimation law so employers can do this, I work in the NHS and I think it's perfectly reasonable for employers to insist

No, they can't, no more can they insist on him only having one toilet break a day.

Any lawyers about?

[reformedcharacters]

[quote BlueTimes]**@reformedcharacters* but that’s not applicable to the AZ/Oxford vaccine which has* been around for a long time in a slightly different way and has nothing to do with mRNA.[/quote]
It applies to the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines, many of which have been administered.

I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t get it just pointing out that it’s not unusual for people to have reservations about a new vaccine as no data exists on the long/term side effects.