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Original poster

Employer disadvantaging and threatening staff who haven’t had the vaccine

661 replies

MrsFCastle · 23/02/2021 17:19

My partner works in health and social care. He isn’t an anti vaxxer. Just feels it’s too soon. His employer is furious and is threatening to stop offering shifts if they don’t get it. I’m genuinely concerned about his job security. Can they do this? Helpful replies only please. This isn’t a thread about anti/pro vax.

OP posts:
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southeastdweller · 27/02/2021 21:14

[quote PigletJohn]@southeastdweller

OOI, how many adults have you consulted (that were not preselected to be in agreement with you)?[/quote]
What's the point of that question?

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 27/02/2021 21:22

Oh, I don't know - 47 million out of 50 million people (if results are extrapolated) seems like quite a few people more in favour, especially as out of those, seventeen and a half would have already had at least their first vaccination.

*figures used for ease of calculation/to give a relative sense of scale for people who can't visualise percentages easily

southeastdweller · 27/02/2021 21:25

There is not a single vaccine that has ever been shown to have long term effects.

@MintyMabel I think you'll find that narcolepsy has been linked to the swine flu vaccine. One person even committed suicide because of it - www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/11/swine-flu-jab-most-likely-led-to-narcolepsy-in-nurse-who-killed-herself-coroner

Some children developed sleep disorders after taking it -

www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/09/ministers-lose-fight-to-stop-payouts-in-swine-flu-jab-narcolepsy-cases

LastTrainEast · 27/02/2021 21:40

@MrsFCastle

My partner works in health and social care. He isn’t an anti vaxxer. Just feels it’s too soon. His employer is furious and is threatening to stop offering shifts if they don’t get it. I’m genuinely concerned about his job security. Can they do this? Helpful replies only please. This isn’t a thread about anti/pro vax.
Too soon for what? To know if it really has a chip in it?

"I’m not getting into a debate on vaccines, but some Very valid and interesting points on both sides of the fence"

Doctors on one side and the David Icke forum on the other.

There is no other side that isn't crazy people who think it's a plot by the lizards.

PigletJohn · 27/02/2021 22:32

@southeastdweller What's the point of that question?

obviously the point is that you turn up your nose at a representative sample of 6,000 British residents, so I wondered what better source you have.

If any.

ArcheryAnnie · 27/02/2021 22:40

I think your partner has to accept that if they work in healthcare, then they need to get the vaccine, and it's reasonable for his employers to require this.

SunshiningBetty · 28/02/2021 00:50

[quote southeastdweller]There is not a single vaccine that has ever been shown to have long term effects.

@MintyMabel I think you'll find that narcolepsy has been linked to the swine flu vaccine. One person even committed suicide because of it - www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/11/swine-flu-jab-most-likely-led-to-narcolepsy-in-nurse-who-killed-herself-coroner

Some children developed sleep disorders after taking it -

www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/09/ministers-lose-fight-to-stop-payouts-in-swine-flu-jab-narcolepsy-cases[/quote]
There’s actually some debate about the link now. There is now mounting evidence that the vaccine did not cause the narcolepsy but that someone who had the vaccine developed it afterwards (not vaccine related) but a link was recorded. Doctors were then keeping an eye out for it and so lots of people got diagnosed with it very quickly (normally it takes a very long time to diagnose it) so it looked like there were cases linked to the vaccine but actually they would have developed it anyway. There is a word for it but it escapes me.

MintyMabel · 28/02/2021 00:59

There is a word for it but it escapes me.

Correlation?

@southeastdweller

i think you’ll find there wasn’t. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30122647/

SunshiningBetty · 28/02/2021 01:10

This is the study

In a presentation of the SOMNIA findings at a recent meeting of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, Dr. Tom Shimabukuro — a CDC vaccine safety expert and a member of the SOMNIA team — used the analogy of an apple tree to explain the problem, known as “awareness bias.”

In the normal course of events, apples ripen and fall in their own time, but if you shake the tree, more apples fall at once. With narcolepsy, some of the people who are genetically vulnerable to developing the condition will be diagnosed with it over time. In some countries, however, the time from onset of the condition to a diagnosis can be years. But the publicity surrounding the problem — the tree shaking — may have brought forward narcolepsy diagnoses that might otherwise only have come to light later.

That could create an artificial spike in cases that appears to suggest a causal relationship between, in this example, the pandemic vaccine and incidence of narcolepsy — even if such a relationship doesn’t exist.

Conversely, the long lag between onset of narcolepsy symptoms and diagnosis could make it harder for scientists to detect a genuine phenomenon.

Pensionista · 28/02/2021 05:59

Pointythings.
You know nothing about me or my views, but I know all of yours, because you won't shut up about them. Seems your the one that has learned nothing. God help the people you work with.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/02/2021 06:40

betty you sound brainwashed. You can not argue allis ok as they would like develop develop narcolepsy anyway.

Motorina · 28/02/2021 07:06

[quote MintyMabel]There is a word for it but it escapes me.

Correlation?

@southeastdweller

i think you’ll find there wasn’t. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30122647/[/quote]
“Observer bias” perhaps?

SunshiningBetty · 28/02/2021 08:41

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

betty you sound brainwashed. You can not argue allis ok as they would like develop develop narcolepsy anyway.
Brainwashed? GrinGrin Hmm

Rather just pointing out that’s it’s not correct to say that the vaccine definitely caused narcolepsy- it’s much more complicated than that.

mangothoughts · 28/02/2021 08:45

I fully sympathise with those who feel it is "too soon" they are scared of a new vaccine and want to see if there are any long term consequences- I get that. Of course they have the freedom to refuse the vaccine.

However, I am fully in support of vaccine passports and employers making the vaccine a condition of employment in care roles. Whether this will be legally allowed I don't know but I hope it will. An individual has every right to choose but their choices should not be allowed to have negative consequences for other people.

Parker231 · 28/02/2021 08:51

mango - everyone I know wants the vaccine asap but the cases I’ve seen on the news and in the press of people saying they don’t want it are situations where they have looked into the benefits and chance of returning to normal life again. In particular I’m sure they will want it if the country they want to go on holiday to requires a vaccine passport.

mangothoughts · 28/02/2021 08:55

Parker - yes I wonder whether the uptake will suddenly increase if, for example, Spain requires a vaccine passport....

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/02/2021 09:22

I’m one of the ones waiting for longer term data. I’m also not wildly happy about needing a vaccine annually.

I don’t fly much anyway due to climate concerns. I would be sad not to attend concerts but I feel very angry that effectively the vaccine will be forced on the population. I think some will always refuse and it will only serve to breed more anti-vaxxers.

pointythings · 28/02/2021 10:06

Pensionista ah yes. Personal attacks. The last resort of those with nothing valic to say.

lightand · 28/02/2021 11:03

@Parker231

mango - everyone I know wants the vaccine asap but the cases I’ve seen on the news and in the press of people saying they don’t want it are situations where they have looked into the benefits and chance of returning to normal life again. In particular I’m sure they will want it if the country they want to go on holiday to requires a vaccine passport.
An article in today's DM may disagree with you there www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9307731/Almost-QUARTER-Londons-frontline-healthcare-workers-failed-accept-Covid-jab.html
lightand · 28/02/2021 11:04

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

I’m one of the ones waiting for longer term data. I’m also not wildly happy about needing a vaccine annually.

I don’t fly much anyway due to climate concerns. I would be sad not to attend concerts but I feel very angry that effectively the vaccine will be forced on the population. I think some will always refuse and it will only serve to breed more anti-vaxxers.

I would agree with most of that.
Parker231 · 28/02/2021 11:06

Well if you are reading the Daily Mail you’re not going to get real news but just fabricated headlines.

lightand · 28/02/2021 11:09

It is not a sin to read the Daily Mail. Or the Guardian or whatever newspaper, so I make no apology to anyone!

southeastdweller · 28/02/2021 19:44

@Parker231

Well if you are reading the Daily Mail you’re not going to get real news but just fabricated headlines.
The story has made the Sunday Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/more-than-200-000-nhs-and-care-staff-have-not-had-covid-jab-7jz86lnww

Is that better?

PuzzledObserver · 28/02/2021 22:07

@Pensionista PuzzledObserver, I am now the Puzzled one - 94% of what? apologies for the delay - 94% of people said they had taken or would take the vaccine in a recent ONS survey.