The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

[noblegiraffe]

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

If I'd had the vaccine this week I'd be v happy to teach full classes on 8th March. But I haven't, so I won't. Give me the same PPE as medical staff, supermarket workers etc and I'll also happily teach, but give me nothing and you can shove it somewhere painful.

@SPRINGTIMEBLUEBELLS

Are they op....

One would assume that by now CEV teachers have been vaccinated, CV being done now and many local authority employees also belong vaccinated.
Numbers of cases falling.

Schools need to reopen for all now.

I'm CV, asthmatic with a history of pneumonia requiring hospital admissions. No vaccine here.

[quote Delatron]@dipdips we are vaccinating at tremendous speed. They didn’t have a vaccination for the Spanish flu yet still the pandemic ended and it became a milder version. So I don’t think it’s comparable when you are vaccinating.

News today is that going at the rates we are, all over 40s will be vaccinated by the end of March. There really will be no argument then about schools. But I am sure some will argue they need to be ‘safe’ and closed until September.[/quote]
There is certainly a decent argument for reopening after the Easter holidays, in April. Part of that argument is that more people will have been vaccinated.

@FreekStar

Schools absolutely are not safe!

I work in one and we have a big sign saying Covid secure in the entrance way! What bollocks! How are we covid secure? Social distancing is not possible, kids don't wear masks nor do teachers in classrooms, children share equipment at times, we have no protective screens, staff share kitchen facilities and toilets which are not guaranteed to be cleaned between each person, corridors are too narrow for different bubbles to not pass at a 2 m distance, staff are handling children's books that have come from home, marking their books etc. etc.

Can those saying they think schools are safe explain how they are safe?

but what has ever been 'safe' anyway?! We have now vaccinated the most vulnerable in society. As others have said, covid is overwhelmingly not a dangerous virus for the majority.

Do you really think handling childrens books is not safe? Really?!

It's going to be chaos.

Third future lock down and ICU full of younger people here we come.

@Eyewhisker

Noble - I have two secondary aged kids who are both really struggling. One has special needs, not in an exam year and is simply incapable of focusing on a virtual lesson where the teacher lectures but there is no feedback and no attention if he drifts off.

Every day he is off school is damaging his future prospects.

The difference last term made was amazing. His school stayed open throughout. He had to do some half-days but was never sent home.

His senco has said that they all want to be back in. They can see the damage that failure to provide an education is doing, especially to those who need it most.

Your ‘solution’ would not have him back, even though those who are actually vulnerable to the disease have been vaccinated.

I am not willing for the children of this country to be thrown under the bus any longer. Vaccinate the teachers, fine. Wear masks, fine but it is beyond selfish of adults to deprive children of education and social development.

Your son who has SN and is failing to engage should already be in. Why are his school failing him by not providing a place under these described exceptions?

They won’t need to be ‘safe’ once most are vaccinated. They can all be licking each other’s faces for all it matters. Can’t wait.

@mumsneedwine

If I'd had the vaccine this week I'd be v happy to teach full classes on 8th March. But I haven't, so I won't. Give me the same PPE as medical staff, supermarket workers etc and I'll also happily teach, but give me nothing and you can shove it somewhere painful.

I agree.

I want to back face to face teaching. But I want to feel as safe as I do when I go to do my shopping, or collect my prescription ... you know, masks, distancing, screens, ventilation. Nine of which I have in school.

If they did open fully then it isn't exactly the same as September

In September a LOT of other things were open concurrently - university students moved all around the U.K. - people were still going on foreign holidays. We were heading into winter and we had no vaccines.

I'm in favour of a staggered opening until
Easter - but if he did open all it isn't the exact same scenario

@HauntedPencil @Delatron

Do you know if any virologists can yet say that the cases are dropping because the second wave has peaked and is dropping or is it vaccination?
Either way I am guessing rates are going to drop at an increasingly quick rate from now on?
I suppose what I am wondering is that people are saying that if we send kids back now we will be back to where were were a few months ago sending lots of bubbles home because there will be an increase in cases.
But if there is a) a natural drop due to wave peaking
AND/OR
b) vaccinatinon
Then this shouldn't be the case should it?

I am not saying that this makes it 100% safe for every child or teacher as that is clearly not true (and presumably we won't be back to 100% safe schools for a long time, if there ever was such a thing.) And I am not saying that means secondaries should open in full (personally I would like rotas and masks for my secondary age children and their wonderful teachers)
BUT does it mean that we won't be going backwards in terms of cases/sending bubbles home?

The point I was trying to make is if we open as we did in Sept I’m worried again on the effects of my students - the repeated isolations, the full closures of our school

But that won't be necessary now. Last September we didn't have a vaccine! Now all the vulnerable are vaccinated so we won't need to isolate and close schools.

@noblegiraffe
Actually, many children couldn't return to school despite being in priority groups as there was insufficient space due to key worker bubbles, which could not exceed 15 children.

Y6 in my children's primary finished on 20 March and were only able to go in for one day, right at the end of term, after YR fans Yr 1 finished a week early to permit them. Despite being eligible to return on 1 Jun.

If they are going to allow rotas for secondary, then KW criteria need
to be massively tightened.

Certain year groups returned in primary in June and keyworker provision continued. If it was managed then, it can’t be impossible now

Absolutely. We just need to revise the key worker criteria, and this would work well. I’m not being sarcastic - it would!

The only issue was that the year groups at home got a raw deal because all teachers were in teaching bubbles so no live sessions and limited teacher made bespoke video lessons.

But, with ‘normal’ class sizes this could be mitigated somewhat, and would be considerably easier in primaries with more than one class per year group, as teachers can share the load.

What PPE do supermarket staff have? They only have masks.

@Redtulipses

The point I was trying to make is if we open as we did in Sept I’m worried again on the effects of my students - the repeated isolations, the full closures of our school

But that won't be necessary now. Last September we didn't have a vaccine! Now all the vulnerable are vaccinated so we won't need to isolate and close schools.

If there are cases in school we will still be closing ‘bubbles’, and as I teach secondary that’s whole years. Nothing has changed there in the guidance.

@noblegiraffe

People are so quick to talk about rotas for pupils but not actually about the practicalities.

Certain year groups returned in primary in June and keyworker provision continued. If it was managed then, it can’t be impossible now.

In the summer, in a school where about 70% of pupils have 1 parent who is a keyworker or they are vulnerable, we had at maximum 1/6th of children in. This enabled us, by dint of having every single member of staff onsite and every space used, to bring in those children entitled to return in half sized groups as well as continuing keyworker provision for other year groups.

This time, we have 50%+ of all children in already.... heading for the full 70% rapidly.

I agree, Spencer, re tightening up keyworker provision if rotas are needed.

If keyworker kids are going to be in part time anyway on a rota, then perhaps they wouldn’t need to be in keyworker provision anyway, so that would help.

@Waxonwaxoff0 I'd take everyone wearing masks ! Schools don't have that.

@AllAroundTheWrekin

It's going to be chaos.

Third future lock down and ICU full of younger people here we come.

on what scientific basis do you think ICU will be full of younger people if we reopen schools?

@siestalady on the basis that the current biggest range of ICU patients is 30-50 years old. You know, teacher and parent aged.

@noblegiraffe I think you have a sensible compromise, it’s not perfect but what is.
@dipdips, I’m 60 and had first vaccine yesterday- feeling rough today but not as bad as when I was in hospital with Covid. I have home schooled my 2DGS’s, 10 and 7, throughout school closures. I have experience in supporting teaching and learning and the boys have improved reading, writing and arithmetic- that is pretty much all I’ve done with them.
I think you make a very good point about vaccinated, not employed people volunteering in schools. The problem would be in ensuring suitability and DBS checks of volunteers.
Once I’ve had my second vaccine I think I will approach the school and offer to volunteer.
For what it’s worth I cannot understand why teachers have not been a priority for vaccination.

I work special education.

They were supposed to remain fully open but due to shielding pupils and those parents who decided to keep their child home we've had 68% attendance.

Of those 68% KW and vulnerable did FT and the others rota of 1 week in and one off.

We had 5 pupils per class max with 4-5 staff to support cleaning, SD etc. So less than slate usually in a class which is 8-9 pupils and 4 staff min.

Our area is fairly low cases (150/100k).

A case in a pupil spread between the whole class in 3 days and then 5 days later 2 people from adjacent class tested positive. They share a corridor and a bathroom.

So I would say everything you suggest is 100% spot on. We've come so far to lose it all over 3 weeks. A cautious approach for 3 and a firebreak for 2 will make so much more difference and go a long way to securing return being return and not a cycle of in/out like the Hokey Cokey.

@hedgehogger1

No idea where you are in the country but they have been done here. Get on the NHS app and book then since I'd you have pre existing conditions it let's you book using your NHS number.
Group 6 are being done now and racing through them, non paid carers, paid carers, social workers, all local authority employees.....teachers included in that....

@Redtulipses

The point I was trying to make is if we open as we did in Sept I’m worried again on the effects of my students - the repeated isolations, the full closures of our school

But that won't be necessary now. Last September we didn't have a vaccine! Now all the vulnerable are vaccinated so we won't need to isolate and close schools.

So can you explain to me what should happen? I have a positive case in my class, and they are with me and the other 30+ children for 6 hours inside, no masks, no SD. Are you seriously suggesting that despite the fact that none of us will have been vaccinated, and vanishingly few parents of the pupils will have been vaccinated, we should just carry on as normal?

The guidance still says close bubble and self isolate for all contacts - the same as it does for the rest of the population.