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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 20:53

@NaughtipussMaximus Can you find the posts where any teachers say schools should stay shut?

Opening with safety measures benefits you, less chance of a no notice 10 day isolation.

echt · 19/02/2021 20:53

Unless they send schools back soon, there will be more suicides from the stress, economy, and depression from being kept indoors, that coronavirus ever created

suicides went down in

FrippEnos · 19/02/2021 20:54

NaughtipussMaximus

What you fail to realise is that for most parents and children, some time in school is better than no time in school.

What you fail to realise is that with the correct mitigating measures the vast majority of schools could stay open. Surely that is better than the piece meal education that we had from sept to Dec?

Remmy123 · 19/02/2021 20:54

@NaughtipussMaximus well said!!!

echt · 19/02/2021 20:54

Pressed too soon.

Suicides down in NSW and Victoria last year. Japan too, but I'm buggered if I can find the link for that.

CovidHalloween · 19/02/2021 20:54

It’s not about locking kids forever, @Remmy123 it is about being careful with the next steps because of we don’t we will mess up all the hard work of lockdown and go back into another lockdown.
The schools need to be safe
Teachers need to be vaccinated
School return should be staged so to give the nhs more time to vaccinate the population especially the under 50s who can be super spreaders due to the nature of their work. The virus will find its way back to the vulnerable and vaccinated lot if it’s too prevalent in the community.
The more the virus jumps around the more chance it has to mutate and the vaccine can become less effective.
We all want to go back to school and work etc but small steps will be worth it on the long run than doing bigs steps in the dark.
I really want this to be over and done with. What we do next will define what our summer will be like.

leopardspotsdotdotdot · 19/02/2021 20:55

@FrippEnos

leopardspotsdotdotdot

Put your mask over you nose (50% of the men in super markets don’t)

and women lets not be sexist.

I honestly have only seen men doing this!! I will monitor next time I’m able to leave the house - ha
noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 20:55

@Piggywaspushed

The vulnerable have not all been vaccinated. Why are people repeating this over and over again on this thread?
Because they think a mantra might stick. As opposed to the truth.
OP posts:
CallmeAngelina · 19/02/2021 20:55

@NaughtipussMaximus, Are you not aware that quoting from other threads is not allowed on MN?

TaxTheRatFarms · 19/02/2021 20:55

“A mild cold”

Brilliant. I shall pass that on to ds and his consultant. Ds caught covid when he was just 10 (slim, fit, healthy, no underlying conditions) and 11 months later he’s still suffering from fatigue and and painful flare ups due to the original infection (as confirmed by his consultant).

Now despite that, I don’t want to lock him or any kids in forever. However, an awareness that it can be a bit more serious for a hopefully small number of kids would be great, both generally and in the medical community to support kids/families going through this. This ridiculous denial that covid can ever infect or affect kids is very hard to read right now.

Understandably, I hope.

(And to another poster above - yes there are other viruses that can cause post viral complications and illness. But he’s vaccinated against the vast majority of them. You’ll notice that covid vaccines for kids aren’t being rolled out anytime soon.)

SpencerGregson · 19/02/2021 20:55

@ChloeDecker
My children's attainment is by and large where it should be.

It's not their academic attainment I'm worried about. It's everything else they're missing out on and how it's affecting them. School is about so much more than school work.

echt · 19/02/2021 20:56

Christ I'm not with it.

Suicides steady, though calls to agencies up.

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 20:56

I don't appreciate that at all naughtipuss. I have never had a post deleted ever and am never anything other than civil to posters. Please don't trawl through other threads looking to twist my attitudes. Teachers are allowed to be a bit silly in their own domain (just as the ADs are, or any other support thread)

Seems some people have nothing better to do than check the staffroom and police our behaviour.

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 20:56

What you fail to realise is that for most parents and children, some time in school is better than no time in school.

Well considering one of the suggestions in the opening post was to have rotas do every child has some F2F teaching I'd say it was recognised pretty early on in this discussion!

And my school had no covid problems apart from 1 staff member (after kid was sent in with temp-but never tested) from sept to December.

9 cases this February over 2 classes - 7 of those in one class and was whole class.

Cases now are lower than most of Oct-dec last year.

If it gets in it's getting around.

Oh and one of these cases passed it to their school escort who sadly died.

borntobequiet · 19/02/2021 20:56

What difference is teenagers in school vs teenagers hanging out on logs in the woods, sharing beers?

I’ve sometimes wondered this myself, but kept teaching the maths anyway in case some stuck.

leopardspotsdotdotdot · 19/02/2021 20:57

@echt

Unless they send schools back soon, there will be more suicides from the stress, economy, and depression from being kept indoors, that coronavirus ever created

suicides went down in

Well you wait! The flood it coming when the economy tanks. I’m on the verge now.

I think people are either bored out of their brains or so busy they can’t cope - the ends of the spectrum are mind blowing.

I’m usually very bullish, I’m done now.

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 20:58

I am also not quite sure why you are copying a quote from the Booker shortlisted A Fine Balance but, hey, read it if you like. I was amused by the relevance of the satire.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 20:59

What difference is teenagers in school vs teenagers hanging out on logs in the woods, sharing beers?

My classroom is full of beer, must be the ventilation outside that's the big difference.

kingat · 19/02/2021 20:59

@NaughtipussMaximus

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
I so agree, I still dont see what is the reasoning for waiting till Easter, what exactly will change? How many teachers will get the vaccine between 8th March and 1st April that we need to wait for?
RosesAndHellebores · 19/02/2021 21:00

Well Tim Spector and Neil Fergus agree with the Government.

As a Maths teacher op I'd have thought it's a balance of probabilities. Weighing the infinitesimal risk of under 60s (presumably schools do demographic risk assessments for their staff) dying from Covid against the less than infinitesimal risk of our youngest people suffering as a result of sub-optimal education, particularly if they are from deprived backgrounds, compared to having a fuller school experience and the social and pastoral benefits that brings.

Presumably if there is a huge cohort of dc who are less employable than otherwise the teaching unions will forego a % here or there on pay increases? Presumably the op has thought about the consequences of a recession equalling that of the 1930s on our young people if not surpassing it and has carefully weighed the risks of those at infinitesimal risk going to work to do the full jobs they are contracted to do rather than contracting the opportunities of young people for the next 20 or 30 years?

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 21:01

@NaughtipussMaximus
Since you're so desperate to know what's going on in the staffroom, here's boot boy.

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 21:01

Neil Ferguson agrees with all school children back on the same day, full time? I'd be amazed.

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 21:02

How many teachers will get the vaccine between 8th March and 1st April that we need to wait for?

I imagine all the CV ones...

Monkeytennis97 · 19/02/2021 21:02

@Piggywaspushed

Neil Ferguson agrees with all school children back on the same day, full time? I'd be amazed.
I think he said there would be headroom for primary years. I don't think he said anything about all schools back at once.
lunapeace · 19/02/2021 21:03

I do think hanging on until after Easter for secondary schools would be wise. From a social aspect, I have a feeling they might relax the meeting outside rule so teenagers will be able to see friends at least. Primary school children have been cut off from their peers and won't be using public transport in large numbers etc. The seasonality after Easter will be a huge benefit too.