Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown · 19/02/2021 20:44

I just want my DC back in school. Hopefully that’s want Boris will be saying on Monday.
@MNnicknameforCVthreads
Wouldn't it be nice if you wanted your dc to be back in school, and for them to be safe?

Remmy123 · 19/02/2021 20:45

Vulnerable and over 60's/65 have been vaccinated so have some protection they are the main risk groups.

Monkeytennis97 · 19/02/2021 20:45

@chloworm

We all matter. Funnily enough to my children their teacher parents matter.

@Remmy123

'A sniffle'. Unbelievable.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 20:45

Please stop going on about "sacrifice".

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 20:45

@Remmy123

Vulnerable and over 60's/65 have been vaccinated so have some protection they are the main risk groups.
Well that's a lie.
OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 20:46

The vulnerable have not all been vaccinated. Why are people repeating this over and over again on this thread?

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 20:46

I'm willing to risk them going back and passing it to me, after all it will be a sniffle!

Tell that to the previously healthy people who are suffering months later.

I won't wish you ill, that would be unkind. But to say its just a sniffle is a lie.

namechange63524 · 19/02/2021 20:46

I wish that the government were just more upfront about the school situation, even if they didn't change it. It makes me really anxious that they lie so blatantly about schools - pretty much most parents and students can see it's nonsensical bullshit, so how can I trust/respect anything they say. It also undermines the government's own messaging (meeting in large groups, not social distancing etc unless in a school) I think a rota system is most sensible. I also think all kids in some of the time is better than some kids in all of the time.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 20:46

Vulnerable and over 60's/65 have been vaccinated so have some protection they are the main risk groups.

They haven't.

Remmy123 · 19/02/2021 20:47

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown they are safe!! Ffs.

It's a mild cold for goodness sake and that's if they show any symptoms at all!!

Shall we lock our kids in forever???

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 20:48

@Remmy123 Tell these people it's just a cold...

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/long-covid-we-ve-been-here-before&ved=2ahUKEwiY2Mn96PbuAhUJUcAKHT_cCggQFjANegQIERAC&usg=AOvVaw3KRkHC94isCvR9JtJ7gAY-" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/long-covid-we-ve-been-here-before&ved=2ahUKEwiY2Mn96PbuAhUJUcAKHT_cCggQFjANegQIERAC&usg=AOvVaw3KRkHC94isCvR9JtJ7gAY-

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.channel4.com/news/more-attention-needed-on-long-covid-says-doctor-diagnosed-with-the-condition&ved=2ahUKEwiY2Mn96PbuAhUJUcAKHT_cCggQxfQBMAt6BAgpEAo&usg=AOvVaw1DQfI7pR_N-IqE4DqUd7hG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.channel4.com/news/more-attention-needed-on-long-covid-says-doctor-diagnosed-with-the-condition&ved=2ahUKEwiY2Mn96PbuAhUJUcAKHT_cCggQxfQBMAt6BAgpEAo&usg=AOvVaw1DQfI7pR_N-IqE4DqUd7hG
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-56113021&ved=2ahUKEwiY2Mn96PbuAhUJUcAKHT_cCggQyM8BMAp6BAgpEAY&usg=AOvVaw0_VWyke-st2hzQQPGvvb85&ampcf=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-56113021&ved=2ahUKEwiY2Mn96PbuAhUJUcAKHT_cCggQyM8BMAp6BAgpEAY&usg=AOvVaw0_VWyke-st2hzQQPGvvb85&ampcf=1

HalfPastThree · 19/02/2021 20:49

what about vulnerable staff?

and if you're a teacher going home to an ECV family member who hasn't been fully vaccinated yet? What choice is there then?

If all vulnerable teachers who haven't yet been vaccinated were allowed to stay at home, I'm assuming it would still be possible to keep most schools open.

echt · 19/02/2021 20:49

[quote Remmy123]@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown they are safe!! Ffs.

It's a mild cold for goodness sake and that's if they show any symptoms at all!!

Shall we lock our kids in forever???[/quote]
No it isn't.

Your kids are not locked in. Unless it's you doing the locking.

ChloeDecker · 19/02/2021 20:49

Also as much as you think homeschooling online is ok for secondary kids ... it really is not!

For some yes, not all.

I was finishing my marking today and uploading marks to my tracking spreadsheets and it was interesting to see that the last half term scores have been slightly up from normal.

Where they have gone down, funnily enough, correlates with any two week self isolation that a secondary aged child had to do, last term. With the ‘some in class and some at home’ situation. That’s when the grades have slipped. This is with all year groups.

It will never happen but looking at data like that more widely would be very interesting.

Remmy123 · 19/02/2021 20:50

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation I am willing to take that risk, as I said so are most people unless you are utterlly paranoid!

Children need to be In School - there is risk of getting long covid every day (shops, etc) doesn't mean we shouid alll stay in shitting ourselves!!

leopardspotsdotdotdot · 19/02/2021 20:50

@noblegiraffe

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

I haven’t read the thread at all. But my view is personal to this situation

Unless they send schools back soon, there will be more suicides from the stress, economy, and depression from being kept indoors, that coronavirus ever created.

I went to the park earlier with my children, the first time in 2 weeks. The first time we’d left the house in 1 week. There were groups of teens in the park, loads in the woody area we walked through. What difference is teenagers in school vs teenagers hanging out on logs in the woods, sharing beers?

If you need to shield, do so.

If you are worried, sheild.

Close the boarders

Put your mask over you nose (50% of the men in super markets don’t)

I’m so done with this lock down. The worst hasn’t happened yet. The economic depression is coming.

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 20:51

As for the constant bleating that giraffe and her coterie want schools to be safe for children, this is disingenuous and a red herring. For the overwhelming majority of children, school even during the peaks of the Covid pandemic has been safer than their commute, and for vulnerable children, it’s safer then their home. This is about the safety of the staff.

When I was talking about making schools safer before Christmas people said I must be really campaigning to close them and now I'm again saying make schools safer (but it can't be to close them because they're already closed) it must be about protecting teachers.

Maybe I just mean what I say? Schools need to be safer because covid running riot through them like it did between Sept and Dec resulted in a poor educational experience for the kids regardless of the fact that schools were open and contributed to the mess that we're in now with them closed completely.

Allowing unmitigated covid spread in any section of the community is a stupid idea right now.

OP posts:
NaughtipussMaximus · 19/02/2021 20:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 20:51

assuming it would still be possible to keep most schools open.

This depends. Small primaries with older staff age profile, probably not. Shielding teachers were a problem for schools in the first lockdown.

CV teachers includes quite a lot of people, only CEV are in group 6.

FrippEnos · 19/02/2021 20:51

leopardspotsdotdotdot

Put your mask over you nose (50% of the men in super markets don’t)

and women lets not be sexist.

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 20:52

What difference is teenagers in school vs teenagers hanging out on logs in the woods

Er, the massive reduction in infection rate when they're hanging out on logs in the woods and not in school?

OP posts:
Remmy123 · 19/02/2021 20:52

@echt sorry but only being able to go for a poxy walk in the rain and not being able to go to school / play sport etc is locking in!!!!

Dementedswan · 19/02/2021 20:52

Well good for you! As a parent who has a few health conditions that put me in the vulnerable bracket. Finding out that actually I haven't been flagged even though GPS are aware. Its broken me,my previous controlled anxiety is sky high and today I've been diagnosed with clinical depression.

I can tell you after the last few days, it's not the social aspect of school that's affected them. It's seeing their parent so poorly! I put on my fake happy face ams go through the motions...but they know.

School work wise, they are flying through, maths etc no problem. Anything I'm not sure of i sit and work it out on a night so I'm ready to give them full support .

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 20:53

What you fail to realise is that for most parents and children, some time in school is better than no time in school.

Literally wrote this in my OP.

OP posts:
leopardspotsdotdotdot · 19/02/2021 20:53

@echt kids are locked in, if you are a working parent and can’t get them out the house because you are working in one of the few jobs left!

I can’t homeschool, and work, do washing, cooking, cleaning and have time to leave the house right now. School afforded me time to work without distraction, so I could do things with them.