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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 19:31

[quote chloworm]www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56072460?fbclid=IwAR3M6722QSOCSF2AvQycXqTeGTMGnbLDTKRgGIOpvpIDWLI6nZ7CUElH2bE[/quote]
Yes... except the research team have said that's actually not what they found, and that the headline was a misrepresentation

FrippEnos · 19/02/2021 19:31

[quote chloworm]www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56072460?fbclid=IwAR3M6722QSOCSF2AvQycXqTeGTMGnbLDTKRgGIOpvpIDWLI6nZ7CUElH2bE[/quote]
Even the members of the Warwick team have come out and stated that this is not what their research shows.

Suzeyshoes · 19/02/2021 19:32

@Yoshinori
‘Some teachers really don’t want to work do they’

Oh FGS stop the teacher bashing Angry. What do you think they’ve been doing over the past 6 weeks? Painting their toe nails? Remote teaching is awful from a teachers POV

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 19:32

@chloworm Read that article very carefully, then read the actual research. The study shows an absence of evidence, not that schools don't spread covid.

FrippEnos · 19/02/2021 19:33

chloworm

From your link

The study was unable to determine whether any infected staff or pupils had caught the virus in the school setting.

Co-researcher Dr Mike Tildesley said: "We are not saying there is no risk.

"It's an absence of evidence."

There was continuing uncertainty about the impact reopening schools might have on the pandemic.

And a cautious approach was needed, he said.

cantkeepawayforever · 19/02/2021 19:33

[quote chloworm]www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56072460?fbclid=IwAR3M6722QSOCSF2AvQycXqTeGTMGnbLDTKRgGIOpvpIDWLI6nZ7CUElH2bE[/quote]
Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, and IIRC this is the study referred to in the first paragraph of noble's OP - the misrepresentation of which has upset the author.

Hugepeppapigfan · 19/02/2021 19:33

Not all vulnerable teachers will be vaccinated soon. Just think of the number of pregnant teachers.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 19:33

Well I have had to paint my own toe nails, given that it's still too dangerous to have them done for me whilst we both wear a mask....

Radio4Rocks · 19/02/2021 19:36

Why do some posters invent lies and pretend they are what teachers are saying?

It makes them look very foolish - as all liars do.

If you have a point to make at least make it about what has actually been said and put the shitty stick down.

MartinAtAFuneral · 19/02/2021 19:37

@Bagamoyo1

Of course schools aren’t risk free, but it’s a risk worth taking for the benefit of kids. Much like it’s a risk worth taking for me to vaccinate hundreds of patients, for their benefit. And shop workers going to work so we can buy food. And home carers visiting service users so they can be washed and dressed. Risks and benefits, pros and cons - nothing is ever black and white. Attempting to live risk free lives is pointless.
God, yes.

I think some people actually believe that if everyone stays at home, forever, then nobody will ever die again.

The only thing that kills people, ever, is Covid. So if you eliminate Covid, you have immortality.

Confused
Suzeyshoes · 19/02/2021 19:37

Question: have any of those who feel schools should be open actually had covid?

We did. Whole family. Myself and the DS absolutely fine, minor symptoms. Fit, early 40s DH very ill, requiring hospital treatment and still recovering 2 months on. I know lots of people who have had similar experiences. Believe me, you DONT want to catch it.

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 19:38

@Radio4Rocks

Why do some posters invent lies and pretend they are what teachers are saying?

It makes them look very foolish - as all liars do.

If you have a point to make at least make it about what has actually been said and put the shitty stick down.

Well said.

Problem is the government and some stupid SM forums have shouted so loud in their chosen narrative that people have started to spout the 3-4 line slogans rather than use the intelligence I always like to assume they have to do actual research and read what's actually written and listen to what's actually said.

My favourite response I ever saw to "schools are safe" was a FB post where they put "well no one was worried about the buildings" Grin

Kitcat122 · 19/02/2021 19:39

Firstly I am a mum to 4 children. I desperately want them back at school. One is exam year and stressed. One is yr7 very socially awkward and found starting high school stressful, just relaxed into it and has been off so long is scared to go back. One is yr6 and missed lots of yr5 and 6 and will be off to high school. One is yr8 and a massive pain in the ass at home 😂. I also work on a school and have seen first hand Covid ripping through our school. No colleagues have died but some have been and still are quite poorly. I had Covid in March last year and still have 3 hospital appointments regarding my on going symptoms next month. (44 and previously very fit).

It saddens me greatly how flippant and uncaring some people are about just getting their kids back to school. We are only asking for some safety measures, it shouldn't be too much to ask.

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 19:39

@Suzeyshoes

Question: have any of those who feel schools should be open actually had covid?

We did. Whole family. Myself and the DS absolutely fine, minor symptoms. Fit, early 40s DH very ill, requiring hospital treatment and still recovering 2 months on. I know lots of people who have had similar experiences. Believe me, you DONT want to catch it.

No I haven't had it, sorry to hear you've had it badly. A lot of friends family have and some nastily - I mean no one wants to catch it.

Then again how long do you want schools shut for? They have to open at some stage.

MartinAtAFuneral · 19/02/2021 19:40

@Hugepeppapigfan

Not all vulnerable teachers will be vaccinated soon. Just think of the number of pregnant teachers.
Oh FFS. What about the pregnant shop assistants? What about pregnant women who have to visit shops? What about pregnant bus drivers?

Or should everyone just stay at home, forever, while our children and young adults bear the brunt of this paranoia?

Blacktothepink · 19/02/2021 19:40

My nephew got covid from school in December and is in hospital with kidney damage and high blood pressure, children can be left damaged, but not according to the Government.

borntobequiet · 19/02/2021 19:42

[quote chloworm]www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56072460?fbclid=IwAR3M6722QSOCSF2AvQycXqTeGTMGnbLDTKRgGIOpvpIDWLI6nZ7CUElH2bE[/quote]
Now read the actual press release - and the paper - to see if it actually said what the BBC thought it said.

warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/new_university_of/

MartinAtAFuneral · 19/02/2021 19:44

@Suzeyshoes I haven't had Covid, but I have had "Long Flu" (though it's only flu, so it doesn't deserve a Special Name). I was hospitalised, then was ill for months. Three times. Flu led to pneumonia and pleurisy for me.

If someone had said that the schools and universities should shut because I happen to have this particular weakness (which they wouldn't, because flu - rightly - doesn't have the holy status of Covid), I would have thought they were completely mad.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 19:44

Then again how long do you want schools shut for? They have to open at some stage.

I don't think anyone disagrees.

Back open with safety measures, just like any other workplace, would be fine.

HalfPastThree · 19/02/2021 19:45

How safe is safe? Would you close schools for a disease that had the same fatality rate as seasonal flu?

Because after the elderly have had their first shot of the vaccine, that's what we're dealing with.

If you want schools to stay closed after the elderly have had their first dose, you're saying we should close schools for seasonal flu. Therefore, to be not completely polite, you have lost all sense of proportion and the government is right to ignore you.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 19:45

We are categorically not saying schools need to stay closed. We're saying that schools need to be reopened slowly and carefully, with mitigations.
Why is that so very bothersome to some people? If it protects me, it protects your kids too... and not just their physical health but their education too.

middleager · 19/02/2021 19:46

I'm so sorry Black.
It's scandalous.
My teen got Covid from school and it wasn't the 'walk in the park'.

I have two year 10s, but we had six isolations because 20%.of classes were affected at both their respective secondaries. Therefore, I'm in no rush to return to weekly disruption and isolations that confined my sons to their homes for weeks on end.

Schools are not safe.

Pinkyxx · 19/02/2021 19:47

I've not RTFT but agree the approach last September in secondary schools was up there in la la land. I say this as someone who lives with 2 vulnerable parents > 70 and has a child in secondary school who caught Covid19 in a supposedly 'Covid' safe school. Her school went much further in terms of measures than most and avoided having any cases in the teachers. Even so several outbreak's happened, the worst of which in my daughter's year bubble. This lead to multiple cases ( I lost count) many of which spread to households. My healthy daughter was ill for 5 weeks ( yes that's weeks...) from early December through beyond New Year. It was horrific to say the least.

My daughter is studious so learning perfectly well online but I can't ignore the fact that it's still having a hugely negative impact on her to be out of school. Like all parents, I want and need to prioritise her wellbeing however on the flip side, do I not want to risk a rinse repeat of last Christmas... it was a traumatic experience for my daughter. She hasn't been the same since & I don't think I have the strength to do it again. An impossible situation but clearly a different approach is needed to protect everyone, else see you in a few months for Lockdown #4,5,6...

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