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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
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8
Delatron · 19/02/2021 17:22

@Piggywaspushed obviously the stats are different for vulnerable people.

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 17:22

Where you live also changes your perspective. The vaccinations are not being raced through in my area. it frequently makes the papers for its dilatory vaccination programme.

Zandathepanda · 19/02/2021 17:22

MartinAtAFuneral if you looked carefully it mentioned the word ‘another’. A teacher of that child is not ‘hysterical’ they have known a teacher die of covid.

Teachers will also be dealing with a lot of pupils who have lost parents or grandparents.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 19/02/2021 17:23

[quote Delatron]@itsgettingwierd all the stats you quote do not change the absolute risk to individuals.

I am not disputing that the hospitals have been overwhelmed! That doesn’t mean your individual risk of dying from Covid has changed 🙄.

But we’ll be in a very different place in a few weeks as we’re racing through the vaccinations.[/quote]
Thank you @Delatron I've been trying to articulate this but can never find the words.

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 17:23

@Timeturnerplease

Have people also forgotten that there is no evidence for asymptomatic transmission

Anecdotal, but here goes. For context: Primary teacher here, Year 3. Village school, children have lots of space in their homes/local area. My classroom is the only one ‘upstairs’ in an old Victorian building (converted roof space, one Velux window that opens two inches).

Child A’s brother (Year 4) had a rash and headache shortly after October half term. Mum, ex healthcare professional, had a hunch so lied about his symptoms and got him tested. Positive. Then got A and secondary age sibling tested, again lying to get test. Positive. Zero symptoms. Dad then got ill and recovered. Mum - mid 40s and healthy - became very ill, ended up on a ventilator. Only just recovering now.

Whole of our class plus brother’s class home for two weeks isolation. In that time seven more families had a family member show symptoms and test positive. Only one child - who sits next to A - showed any symptoms at all, and that was a rash.

Back in school for a couple of weeks. Stomach bug spread through my class. Usual winter thing, we assumed. Child B’s parents dosed her up on Calpol and sent her in the morning after being sick in the night. Sick in the middle of a maths lesson so sent home. A week later two children tested positive after parents again lied about symptoms - just had the ‘bug’ and rash/headache. All out for two more weeks isolation.

I say anecdotal, but from teacher Twitter I have learnt about many more cases like this, and not all in covid ‘hotspots’. Surely this warrants investigation, then consideration of which measures we can put in place to mitigate the risk to the community caused by such transmission.

Exactly same in my experience.

Small class as SS and was a few weeks ago so limited attendance (68% and some on Rita unless KW).

1 in class got it. Every single person in that classroom positive in next 3 days.

Our case numbers are similar to last October. We had 1 case then. Kid off sick (temp) and staff member positive so it was possibly 2.

So anecdotally this is new strain (Kent?) and it is highly transmissible.
But there's no evidence community transmission affects transmission in schools. Only in our case if it gets in then it's getting around.

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 17:23

Right so what do you suggest for unvaccinated vulnerable teachers delatron?

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 17:23

Especially my older DS who I thought wasn't a big school fan.
One of my year 11 students in the first lesson in September suddenly looked at me really seriously and said "miss, I never thought I'd say this.... but I've missed you". I asked him to write it down for posterity 😂

MummaPI · 19/02/2021 17:24

Why are people so blasé about primary schools? It is an issue in them too and I dont know one member of staff in my school who has had the vaccine but back we go, as normal. All we want is to feel safer then we have for the last year and yet people would suggest we need to rethink out career! Absolutely bloody ludicrous!

Delatron · 19/02/2021 17:24

I’m hoping the bubble system and isolation periods will go once all the over 40s have been vaccinated and we achieve the goal of not overwhelming the NHS.

Or are we going for zero Covid now? The goalposts do keep moving.

Wheresthebeach · 19/02/2021 17:25

I'd prefer a partial return now for primary, with secondary going back after Easter. One week in, one week off rotating years makes sense, and should help slow down transmission.

Vaccine rollout is very mixed and it needs to be levelled out. Frankly schools do drive transition and the roundabout of self isolating is a nightmare and much more disruptive IMO.

I have a asthmatic DD, one hospitalisation for asthma. So according to Asthma UK and the documents they've sent me, she is group 6.

GP is refusing to vaccinate her as she's only (!) had one emergency admission. Do I want my DD back at school? Nope. It's bloody dangerous for her and right now I'm hoping the government will just prioritise all asthmatics in the next round.

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 17:25

@Tiktokersmiracle

I agree OP It is not safe It's not safe for children It's not safe for staff

As DD said, "I'm not going back to school so another one of our teachers can die and we have that on our conscience for ever, thanks very much".

I don't think I could put it better

We also had a teacher die; Dc12 was very upset.
Delatron · 19/02/2021 17:26

@Piggywaspushed if he’s vulnerable surely he’ll be vaccinated very soon.

I’m a healthy 44 year old and they are saying end of March for over 40s. They’ve also increased the vulnerable/sheilding list. It’s huge now?

mumsneedwine · 19/02/2021 17:26

@MartinAtAFuneral we have had to deal with very upset students because their teachers have died. And one student is convinced he gave it to one of them as he caught it and she came down with it 5 days after him. He now has counselling as he has been so affected. And the rest of the classes she taught (about 300 kids) have all been affected. It isn't until someone that you know, who was young and fit dies that the reality of 'risk' kicks in. It might be a low risk of dying but it's pretty shit if you are that risk, and this risk was avoidable if safety precautions had been taken.

lonelyplanet · 19/02/2021 17:27

@noblegiraffe

They currently have the highest positivity rate of any age group

Not according to the ONS random sampling data released today. I don’t know why the REACT study disagrees, I’m not sure what it looks at, but if it’s not random sampling then ONS is a better measure.

Both React and PHE (released yesterday and attached) disagree with ONS. I wonder whether with a primary age child you too have an agenda and want to choose which data to believe?
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
Monkeytennis97 · 19/02/2021 17:27

@Thripp

because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating

Well... my DD is in the sixth form at a small boarding school with acres and acres of outside space, and plans for Covid testing already in place. They hadn't had a single case until they were required to close in January. So they could quite easily re-open in this way.

Not all schools are the same.

And I would say a small boarding school with acres of space isn't representative of the majority of secondary schools. Perhaps there should be some sort of school by school basis or area by area but this would extend disadvantage/advantage even more.
Delatron · 19/02/2021 17:27

Sorry I thought you said your DH was a vulnerable teacher.

Vulnerable teachers should all be vaccinated very soon. They’re whizzing through vaccinations.

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 17:28

[quote Delatron]@itsgettingwierd all the stats you quote do not change the absolute risk to individuals.

I am not disputing that the hospitals have been overwhelmed! That doesn’t mean your individual risk of dying from Covid has changed 🙄.

But we’ll be in a very different place in a few weeks as we’re racing through the vaccinations.[/quote]
Exactly this. So we should wait "a few weeks" before return, according to your own argument there, when more people will have been vaccinated (which is what I have been saying).

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 17:28

@Chosennone

Where are all the depressed teens? All the teens I know, including my own, are living their best lives. They enjoy the remote learning and the level of feedback they get compared to a classroom. They miss their friends a bit, but meet for exercise. Anti social buggers 😅
Yeah my ds (autistic so doesn't tolerate people at the best of time 🤣) thinks it great jo one can interrupt being an idiot because for one the teachers can actually mute them Grin
Zandathepanda · 19/02/2021 17:28

Delatron there really isn’t a bubble system now. Look at my long post previously.

Thripp · 19/02/2021 17:29

@Monkeytennis97 I do think there should be some kind of 'school by school' basis. Not least as I'm still paying for it!

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 17:29

As I said delatron it varies by area. He is certainly not going to be vaccinated and protected by March 8th.

Vaccinations aren't a magic bullet anyway : the virus will still be circulating; education will still be disrupted. Remote education for many has been far less piecemeal than what was being experienced in school.

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 17:30

Also the individual risk from covid does increase if hospitals are overwhelmed, by about 3 fold (from an average of 1-1.5% to 3-4%)

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 17:31

sorry, that is IFR estimated for the UK

Delatron · 19/02/2021 17:32

The virus will always be circulating @Piggywaspushed it actually won’t matter soon.

Luckily the vaccines have been shown effective at completely preventing serious disease and hospitalisation. The wonderful world of science.

Monkeytennis97 · 19/02/2021 17:32

[quote Thripp]@Monkeytennis97 I do think there should be some kind of 'school by school' basis. Not least as I'm still paying for it![/quote]
Your choice I guess. I did the same (remortgaged to afford it- two state school teacher parents here).

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