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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
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8
Redlocks28 · 19/02/2021 17:11

[quote GintyMcGinty]**@SneezyGonzalez* They should have been second on the list after medical staff*

Eh no - they should come after those most at risk of dying or being hospitalised.[/quote]
Why is it fine that so many NHS staff who are working remotely are having the vaccine ahead of those at risk of dying and being hospitalised ?

Thripp · 19/02/2021 17:11

because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating

Well... my DD is in the sixth form at a small boarding school with acres and acres of outside space, and plans for Covid testing already in place. They hadn't had a single case until they were required to close in January. So they could quite easily re-open in this way.

Not all schools are the same.

kingat · 19/02/2021 17:12

I does make sense to me.
Whay exactly will be so different after Easter?
More ppl will have the vaccine, but how many of these are teachers and children who have not had it yet? (By 8th of March to be precise) .
I know the next group is 16-64 with underlying health conditions and over 65s, so proportionally how many of them are affected by schools?
And tbh those can stay home until after Easter after all it is just 3 weeks. Yes, not fair, but so is stopping everyone else from living a life.

Watchingbehindmyhands · 19/02/2021 17:12

If there are a lot of teachers that want to stay off then they might want to reconsider their career

ODFOD. Seriously. Schools are staffed largely by NQTs these days as it is. Every over 50 year old I know who had enough pension years has retired. Most of them would have stayed on for a few more years. Shortage subject areas were really struggling with recruitment even before this. Sure, you'll no doubt tell me ITT applications are up but it means nothing when gaps need filling now. Nor does it mean anything at all when many of those applications will be unsuitable or statistically unlikely to make it beyond year 4 of their 'career'.

So belittle us and poke fun. We know the reality of our work environment and what is happening on the grounds. And hope it's not your family with a case that can be directly traced back to a child in school.

kingat · 19/02/2021 17:13

Sorry, was quoting a poster who said we should wait till after Easter

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 17:13

If they are older / diabetic they will have been already vaccinated though !!!

What do you mean by older? I don't know many people who work in schools who are over 65. I do know three diabetics, two over 50, who have not been vaccinated.

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 17:13

@Delatron

I do think many posters fail to do an accurate risk assessment. Even if you are 80 and you catch Covid you are far more likely to survive than die. What do you think the stats are for 40/50/60 year olds?

It’s a mild illness for most, that hasn’t changed. You can’t argue with statistics. Go and have a read what your personal chance of dying from Covid is. The fear is ridiculous and disproportionate.

Why don't you read some stats.

Look at excess death rate for the year despite the restrictions and ICU and hospital capacity despite the restrictions. And also they've just released the 2021 op waiting list for the year. Over 200k people now will wait over a year compared to under 2k pre covid.

Personally I don't like the statistics. Not because I like the doom and gloom - but because I understand them properly and what they actually mean when you remove mitigation's about what could happen.

We will get out of this. We may just need a little longer than they are willing to wait.

mumsneedwine · 19/02/2021 17:14

@Thomasina2021 I'm 53, no vaccine. How old do I have to be so you think I'm vaccinated ? Doing over 65s in my area and most teachers have retired by then. I expect mine end of April according to the calculator (not the DM who can't count)

Zandathepanda · 19/02/2021 17:15

In my above post ‘vulnerable’ meant medically vulnerable.

Chimeraforce · 19/02/2021 17:16

Like in September when bbc showed schools with 6 teenage students to a classroom. Oh how I laughed that there would be anyone dumb enough to believe that their child's school would be like that 🙄🙄
Most state schools are stuffed to the gills normally. Zero chance of any s. d for Covid.

MartinAtAFuneral · 19/02/2021 17:17

This reply has been deleted

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itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 17:17

@dividedwefall

Maybe we get the brave doctors and nurses, delivery drivers, supermarket workers, bus drivers and other pillars of society in to teach seeing as they have bravely worked through the worst of it, even in March when everyone was terrified.

All the teachers I know are ready to have the kids back in. Some have been vaccinated, some haven't. If there are a lot of teachers that want to stay off then they might want to reconsider their career. Most teachers have been amazing through this whole thing so I don't think there is a big issue with this.

Yea I'm sure all those who have covid secure measures and Ppe and we're also still terrified would love to work in a crowded place with no ppe instead.

I don't doubt for 1 minute others haven't been at risk. But comparing workplaces with PPE, SD and who limit numbers with a school is comparing apples and oranges.

And teachers are working - remotely like the government said anyone that can - should!

Delatron · 19/02/2021 17:17

@itsgettingwierd all the stats you quote do not change the absolute risk to individuals.

I am not disputing that the hospitals have been overwhelmed! That doesn’t mean your individual risk of dying from Covid has changed 🙄.

But we’ll be in a very different place in a few weeks as we’re racing through the vaccinations.

VinylDetective · 19/02/2021 17:17

@Delatron

The first dose also protects against severe disease and hospitalisation which is the main thing we want isn’t it? If people are just catching a mild illness then no overwhelming the NHS. Or have we lost sight of what the goal is here?
We’ve completely lost sight of the goal. It’s mission creep. We started by flattening the curve so the NHS wasn’t overwhelmed, the BMA is now talking about locking us all down until covid is eradicated, ie never. I wish we could get a bit of bloody perspective.
CallmeAngelina · 19/02/2021 17:18

@Delatron

Ha *@KittensTeaAndCake* yes I’m not sure why I bother. I did promise myself not to get involved in another hysterical school post.

Just like to remind people of the actual stats from time to time to balance the ‘We’re all going to die!’ and ‘Nowhere is safe’ posts...

What strange comprehension of the thread. I haven't seen any hysteria, nor anyone saying, "We're all going to die."
Delatron · 19/02/2021 17:18

You’ve admitted you are terrified @itsgettingwierd
Are you vulnerable?

GinPin2 · 19/02/2021 17:19

I am ex supply teacher I think (because I have not taught now for 11 months)
I fully support teachers in their concerns.
I have been teaching my 9 yr old grandson and when my daughter is at work and he is back at school, will be picking him up twice a week from school.
However, we live in an area where there are many people older than my 64 years, this is slowing the vaccination roll out down in this area. It could be some time before I get mine. So my daughter has decided to continue to keep my grandson off school until I have had my jab.
I trust that the Government will still allow parents that choice.

lonelyplanet · 19/02/2021 17:20

@Delatron

Ha *@KittensTeaAndCake* yes I’m not sure why I bother. I did promise myself not to get involved in another hysterical school post.

Just like to remind people of the actual stats from time to time to balance the ‘We’re all going to die!’ and ‘Nowhere is safe’ posts...

And yet here you are again, with no data...
kingat · 19/02/2021 17:20

@Linearpark

Your child is missing socialisation which whilst important is not essential

What madness is this. Man is a predominantly social creature.

Clearly we need socialisation, a lot of people are turning into covid police spying on neighbours and friends, angry terrified weirdos.
Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2021 17:20

My DH is vulnerable delatron. Permission for him to be at least rather anxious?

Hopeful201 · 19/02/2021 17:21

Secondary school, blended learning ie week in week out. Testing each week. I want them back asap, my two have not complained but I can see they are desperate to get back. Especially my older DS who I thought wasn't a big school fan.

Delatron · 19/02/2021 17:21

Yep @VinylDetective perspective has definitely been lost.

I guess it’s the media’s fault but the children shouldn’t suffer for adults inability to assess risk
accurately.

Redlocks28 · 19/02/2021 17:22

Maybe we get the brave doctors and nurses, delivery drivers, supermarket workers, bus drivers and other pillars of society in to teach seeing as they have bravely worked through the worst of it, even in March when everyone was terrified

Oh, is that the only criteria necessary for teaching them, appearing brave? Well, no wonder Us4Them thought they could go into schools and run them.

Suzeyshoes · 19/02/2021 17:22

I want to know when the public is going to start holding the government responsible for this. I have numerous friends and family abroad and literally NONE of them still have kids stuck at home. My french nieces and nephews have been happily attending school since September. The family spent Xmas together. Ppl are still going on holiday. Same in Spain.

Those saying that the toll on the mental health of young people is shocking are right. So, instead of asking when the kids are going back, when are we going to start asking why Johnson messed up so badly? Holding him to account. Getting the right person in the job instead of letting him fumble on, clueless. Not a single member of the gov has gone. No questions asked.

I’m so angry that British kids have ended up going through this.

FrippEnos · 19/02/2021 17:22

Delatron
The first dose also protects against severe disease and hospitalisation which is the main thing we want isn’t it? If people are just catching a mild illness then no overwhelming the NHS. Or have we lost sight of what the goal is here?

Surely the goal in education is to have schools remain open is as safe and sustainable way as possible.

Repeatedly having classes, bubbles and year groups close is not good for the mental health of children.