The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

[noblegiraffe]

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The thing that I still don't understand regarding primaries is why they cannot use community centres/church halls etc.

I manage a community centre. We would, if approached, be happy to consider it.
But:
We would have the following issues:
Toilets -we have 2 rooms big enough to take a class of 30 with distancing. They would have to share toilets-3 girls cubicals and 1 boys with urinals. We do not have enough toilets to be able to give them a toilet per form.
Outside play: Not a chance unless they play in the car park-no go!
Pick up/drop off: I can tell you the local residents have pitchforks all ready for excess cars around all the time. It would give them some entertainment, which might be interesting, but I wouldn't like to guarantee all would be well at the end!
Mess/damage: Children doing craft/eating lunch etc generate more mess than adults listening to a talk/playing bridge etc.
We've just redecorated and had the floors polished. We would want a guarantee that it would be returned to the original condition.
Building: We have lots of rooms, we would not be turning away people who hire every week (or people using the cafe) so there would be members of the public in the building.
And lastly current hirers. We have a number of hirers that hire every week. Most can't meet at the moment, but some will be back as soon as they're allowed. If we cannot hire the room to them, they may well look elsewhere. We may then lose them as a hirer.
Also the rooms that we would hire out, are used in the evenings and weekends. The school would have to clear everything away each night.

In some ways I would love the schools to come and ask. We could do with the income currently. But it wouldn't be a "no issues" response. We would have to consider it carefully so it could be safe for all concerned.

While I understand the focus on exam years, I really think years 10 and 12 have been badly neglected and should also be prioritied. Year 10 have lost much of the first half of their GCSE courses (and online really isn't the same, particularly for those who have learning difficulties or difficult home environments), and year 12 have lost really important time. They haven't got the time to catch up that other years have and those that are struggling most are least able to cram to catch up. Even if there needs to be some sort of rota we need to start bringing them into school, as well as planning what changes need to be made to their assessments next year.

I feel really sorry for them that a year on they are still getting this shit.
Don't feel sorry for us - we're used to getting this shit. Obviously, trying to protect ourselves and - by extension our students and their communities - is a heinous crime. But we'll keep on because that's what we do.

When ours went back in June only 8 went in at a time - obviously changed now to class bubbles.

So they got 1 afternoon for 2 weeks and one full day.

@ekidmxcl

I am surprised that there has been no emergency vaccination of teachers. To me, it would therefore be wrong to fully open schools on 8 March. Especially as there is only a bit of the term left - 2.5-3 weeks ish? Why not keep kids off for those days - it's only 15 school days or less - and make very sure that by the beginning of the summer term that every teacher wanting a jab has had one. My kids are taught by a huge mix of people: older, diabetic, bame, mixed up with very young 20 somethings with no health issues. I would hate to see any of my kids' teachers in hospital just so my kids could go to school for 15 days.

If they are older / diabetic they will have been already vaccinated though !!!

Secondary here.

Let's remember a few key things:

1. Many people have had the FIRST dose of a vaccine. This doesn't mean they can't catch Covid. It doesn't stop them being vulnerable.

1. The majority of adults working in schools have NOT been vaccinated.

1. Restrictions similar to last summer will simply not be feasible to maintain we don't have the staffing and resources to implement.

1. We all want children back in school but only when it's safe for them. Why potentially sacrifice the Summer term for the sake of 3 weeks of school in March? It seems like madness.

1. Let's be clear that children are not missing education. They are being provided in most cases with complete curriculums delivered remotely by their teachers. Work is being submitted and marked. No child is missing learning (if they are for whatever reason they are eligible to attend school, under the classifications of vulnerable children) Your child is missing socialisation which whilst important is not essential, all of us are missing this.

And all this talk of hundreds/thousands a day still dying: it is perfectly normal for thousands of deaths to occur every day in the UK. Manipulating fear is the reason that they do not include graphs showing daily deaths from heart attacks, strokes etc.

Even if everyone lived for an average of 100 years, and equilibrium was reached, in a stable population, you would have 68,000,000 / 100 / 365 = ca.1750 deaths per day. However, death rates are higher in an aging population like ours; deaths are always seasonally affected, so generally this would vary between 750 in summer months to 2750 in bad winter months when respiratory viruses predominate. Last winter was a very mild one so, as was predicted, more deaths occurred this winter (or would have next winter) as there is a higher number of very vulnerable people who managed to get through last year when flu cases were not too bad.

We have to die of something. We are not going to live for 200 years.

If they are older / diabetic they will have been already vaccinated though !!!

Again not true. They are only just starting to be vaccinated now for the first jab.

www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/coronavirus-vaccines

@Thomasina2021 But they haven’t! I’m been on a vaccine thread and read of 20 somethings in Essex having the vaccine but I’m in the West Mids, with a high elderly population, and my mum who is in a nursing home - in an incapacitated state - had the vaccine. She ‘protected’ in her lock down state but that means if she hadn’t been vaccinated and CEV, then teachers in our area won’t be too.

Not ideal for those in Labour strongholds who tend to side with the unions in their efforts to undermine the government, at children's expense.

As highlighted above the yougov polls are split 50/50 in opinion.

But crap like above is just adding trouble and not solving the situation.

I'm assuming you aren't in a teaching union or you'd actually know what they are saying.

They're calling for safety measures and mitigations and funding for safer opening for staff and pupils.

It scares me there's actually parents out there who so desperately want their kids in school they don't give a shit if they are sending them into an unsafe environment.
I'm assuming (hoping!) those same parents don't let their kids go without a seatbelt because they've never had a crash or the kid doesn't want to wear it.

Wanting safe opening doesn't equate to wanting something closed.

The same as wanting a seatbelt law didn't equate to wanting to abolish motorways!

Ha @KittensTeaAndCake yes I’m not sure why I bother. I did promise myself not to get involved in another hysterical school post.

Just like to remind people of the actual stats from time to time to balance the ‘We’re all going to die!’ and ‘Nowhere is safe’ posts...

OP, the short version of my response is: I want all children of all ages to go back on 8th March, or preferably on Monday.

I also want university students to go back. The latter have been woefully ignored throughout. My student children have had no information at all about when they might be able to return.

*hasn’t had the vaccine

@SneezyGonzalez They should have been second on the list after medical staff

Eh no - they should come after those most at risk of dying or being hospitalised.

Your child is missing socialisation which whilst important is not essential

What madness is this. Man is a predominantly social creature.

Also the first jab offers the most protection. The second jab is just a booster of a few percentage.

In some ways I would love the schools to come and ask. We could do with the income currently

And this is the reason why community centres etc will never be utilised as classrooms-if it costs them a penny, the government will never support it.

I agree with a lot of what noble has said in her op about secondary schools. I say this with dc in y11 and y13 who I am very worried about, they miss school, they miss their friends, they feel cheated of their chance to prove themselves in exams (with no clue about what they should be preparing for in the summer) and they feel uncertain of their futures. It is still right however that they have not been in school and shouldn'tbe for a little longer. I will be disgusted if the government starts banging on for the next two weeks that schools are safe - they are not.

However I don't agree with noble about primary schools. They currently have the highest positivity rate of any age group; it would be dangerous to throw them all back in at once. I realise that this makes life difficult for parents but until more people have been fully vaccinated we need to live with this for a few more weeks. I think primaries need to have a staggered return whilst we keep an eye on infection rates. If necessary a rota should be implemented so that the ks2 chikdren at least can be spaced in the classroom. They would then get more intensive teacher time when in school and could be set work to be completed when at home.

My opinion:

Start a phased return. Immune systems need to be eased back to normal. Record all lessons so anyone who wants to can keep their kids at home And furlough should stop now.

Where are all the depressed teens? All the teens I know, including my own, are living their best lives. They enjoy the remote learning and the level of feedback they get compared to a classroom. They miss their friends a bit, but meet for exercise. Anti social buggers 😅

@Tiktokersmiracle

I agree OP It is not safe It's not safe for children It's not safe for staff

As DD said, "I'm not going back to school so another one of our teachers can die and we have that on our conscience for ever, thanks very much".

I don't think I could put it better

Your poor DD.

That highlights what many have said all along that being out of school causes difficulties but the guilt (probably misplaced but understandable) will have a longer term effect when someone does die from it.

I think they'll get over another 3 weeks off school a lot quicker.

for your DD

The first dose also protects against severe disease and hospitalisation which is the main thing we want isn’t it? If people are just catching a mild illness then no overwhelming the NHS. Or have we lost sight of what the goal is here?

Dd (Year 12) is in Group 6. I couldn’t get her a general Group 6 appointment (too full) but we got a text yesterday and a letter today with a specially link to book which gave us a morning slot today(half term). So it seems to be a sub-set of Group 6. The 2nd jab is on a Saturday (non school day). This was useful as vulnerable Year 11/12/13 have to have the Pfizer one. Why couldn’t they have done this priority system with at least Group 6 teachers/ed staff as a goodwill gesture and as a practical one too - teachers will be happier to go back and they wouldn’t have time off to get the jab and if they are ill (leaving pupils with no teacher/supply for an indefinite period). At 6th form they don’t ‘do’ supply so zoom lessons are better than no lessons with ill teachers.

Dd is still nervous. As I have said before, she’s in a bubble of 4 at the moment. We don’t go out. At school the ‘bubble’ will be 40 different unmasked classmates, their classmates in different subjects, all their siblings, all their parents, all their bus mates, all their parents workmates. Runs into the thousands.

HER 6 TEACHERS ARE GOING TO HAVE THOUSANDS IN THEIR ‘BUBBLES’ TOO.

No SPACE (pupils sit shoulder to shoulder), no FACE masks except in corridors (where a manky six week old fashion one is sometimes used), possibly HANDS (if the sanitiser hasn’t run out or they are instructed to use it). If they are lucky they are in a class with a working window.

They currently have the highest positivity rate of any age group

Not according to the ONS random sampling data released today. I don’t know why the REACT study disagrees, I’m not sure what it looks at, but if it’s not random sampling then ONS is a better measure.