The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

[noblegiraffe]

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

@kingat

Would it not be possible to have one rolling thread on this rather than 100s everyday. Nothing changed in the past few days. It is the same argument over and over and over and the two sides will never agree. The posters who are not ready for schools to be back wont be ready after Easter and in May and in September. Most healthy adults will not be vaccinated until then and no child will be.

Those who havent had the vaccine yet, have slim chance of dying, as much as from anything we face everday.
There maybe a new variant in the future, there maybe be an asteroid hitting us, maybe not. We cant stay home and wait for it.

You only get to be a child once and for short time.
Btw, we had no problems at all in our school Sep to Dec. 98% attendance.

Yes, I can scroll past

No. A later date would reduce the risk of problems. After Easter is looking a lot more sensible than March.

Going back for 3 weeks right now doesn't make sense.

Have people also forgotten that there is no evidence for asymptomatic transmission

Anecdotal, but here goes. For context: Primary teacher here, Year 3. Village school, children have lots of space in their homes/local area. My classroom is the only one ‘upstairs’ in an old Victorian building (converted roof space, one Velux window that opens two inches).

Child A’s brother (Year 4) had a rash and headache shortly after October half term. Mum, ex healthcare professional, had a hunch so lied about his symptoms and got him tested. Positive. Then got A and secondary age sibling tested, again lying to get test. Positive. Zero symptoms. Dad then got ill and recovered. Mum - mid 40s and healthy - became very ill, ended up on a ventilator. Only just recovering now.

Whole of our class plus brother’s class home for two weeks isolation. In that time seven more families had a family member show symptoms and test positive. Only one child - who sits next to A - showed any symptoms at all, and that was a rash.

Back in school for a couple of weeks. Stomach bug spread through my class. Usual winter thing, we assumed. Child B’s parents dosed her up on Calpol and sent her in the morning after being sick in the night. Sick in the middle of a maths lesson so sent home. A week later two children tested positive after parents again lied about symptoms - just had the ‘bug’ and rash/headache. All out for two more weeks isolation.

I say anecdotal, but from teacher Twitter I have learnt about many more cases like this, and not all in covid ‘hotspots’. Surely this warrants investigation, then consideration of which measures we can put in place to mitigate the risk to the community caused by such transmission.

I still want to know if the second wave naturally falling? Or is it solely vaccination leading to the big drop in cases? Does anyone know?

This is from an hour or so back but I keep seeing similar comments. How are people forgetting that we are in lockdown?

100% agree all teachers and school staff need to be vaccinated along with school staff or at least be given the choice 🤷🏻‍♀️ They should have been second on the list after medical staff. It’s utterly disgusting and only emphasises what I already know about the exploitation disregard of the wellbeing of the teaching profession.

Everyone wants schools to reopen/not reopen in full , to suit their own agenda. Very few will be happy with how it’s done and there will be yet another thread with people trying to justify their opinion and shouting down others that disagree. It’s a pointless exercise. It’s all been done to death.

I’ve been back at work since September but colleagues have worked all through.

If our boss told us we would be in a room of 30 odd people at close proximity all day and had to go down a narrow corridor with hundreds of others to go get our lunch we’d tell him to do one.

@noblegiraffe

Again though, how do you suggest primaries run a rota system?

Same as in June but with year groups on rotation. And keyworker kids trimmed back to account for the fact they will be in school part time anyway.

But schools did not take all year groups back in June mainly because the government realised it wouldn't work. Our school could not have half classes on a rota and still looked after key worker children the rest of the time. There are no spare teachers. Each class teacher would nee to look after their half class. To keep bubbles you can't keep mixing the keyworker children with other classes or year groups for the weeks they are not in their own class. So what do you suggest. Saying this is what they did in June simply isn't true. That is why your child couldn't go back in June.

@PurpleHoodie

"The government is about to tell you that schools are safe"

For the majority of children/youth they are: Covid, or otherwise.

Okay so they are for the majority of pupils. But what about staff? We are going to be missing even more staff with the additional 1.7 million people asked to shield.

One example is a 32 year old class teacher who is included in this list (I didn't even know she was clinically vulnerable!) There will be many others. How do we manage without them?

@Anjo2011 I agree

I do agree that non-exam years in secondary should be considered after Easter.

But it would be great it it were possible for these years to actually go onto site even one afternoon a week for socially distanced PE.

We know that transmission rates outside are very low/negligible. Some structure in their week, with some contact with people outside of their family and actually going to and returning to school would be really beneficial for most of these children, I think.

All the 'bubbles' bursting etc last term means that many Y7s, Y8s, Y9s and Y10s have only been in school for a few weeks since last March.

A 'phased return' would be a good move.

@Anjo2011

Everyone wants schools to reopen/not reopen in full , to suit their own agenda. Very few will be happy with how it’s done and there will be yet another thread with people trying to justify their opinion and shouting down others that disagree. It’s a pointless exercise. It’s all been done to death.

see I think there is a point in intelligent discussion

@mumsneedwine

I've decided I'm not going in. So none of my classes will have a teacher if they try and force it. Sorry, but my life comes first, and since no one else seems to care about it enough to try and keep me safe, I'll now make the decision for myself. Section 44 ready to go if Boris says all open.

I don't blame you.

noble it was in The Times two days ago.

It wasn't very clearly reported, though.

Will see if I can find it.

Same survey that found only 1 in 10 parents cited their child's return to school as their top priority, I believe.

@christinarossetti19

I do agree that non-exam years in secondary should be considered after Easter.

But it would be great it it were possible for these years to actually go onto site even one afternoon a week for socially distanced PE.

We know that transmission rates outside are very low/negligible. Some structure in their week, with some contact with people outside of their family and actually going to and returning to school would be really beneficial for most of these children, I think.

All the 'bubbles' bursting etc last term means that many Y7s, Y8s, Y9s and Y10s have only been in school for a few weeks since last March.

A 'phased return' would be a good move.

1 in 115, transmission rates still high, we're still in lockdown

I say again - I work in secondary. I am put at risk daily. I want to go back, but it IS NOT SAFE for me, in my school. There are no mitigation strategies. I have various vulnerability factors yet am not eligible for a vaccine.

I am in close contact with 120+ kids per day. I am asked to move around the classroom as normal and give feedback yet also socially distance. My school is adhering to the guidelines.

What do you suggest I do?

@SneezyGonzalez

100% agree all teachers and school staff need to be vaccinated along with school staff or at least be given the choice 🤷🏻‍♀️ They should have been second on the list after medical staff. It’s utterly disgusting and only emphasises what I already know about the exploitation disregard of the wellbeing of the teaching profession.

They've been vaccinating according to risk of death. Roughly. Which is a reasonable approach. Teachers have been in the classroom throughout, so the relative risk of death is known (see multiple threads on this grim topic).

Now it's the under 60s in many areas. The CEV should have been done. Teachers should be moved up the list if schools are to open fully.

Not you again noble

But schools did not take all year groups back in June mainly because the government realised it wouldn't work

Y1 went back in at my DD’s school full time and socially distanced. Keyworker provision continued. She got no time in school.

What could have happened was Y1 time in school could have been halved and my DD could have been in the rest of the time.

No, not necessarily taught by their own class teacher, but better than at home full time taught by me and not seeing her peers at all.

I cba to read the whole thread. But I as a teacher I just want schools back. It’s so cruel keeping kids off like this - staying at home for a year when you are 38 is one thing, but a missed year of being 14 is a precious year of childhood missed that you’ll never get back.

@dividedwefall

As opinions are so divided, I don't see why schools can't open for those who want them open, and closed for those who are too scared?

Is isn’t about being too scared. There is a wider picture that people are missing, parents who are out to work are increasing the amount of people they are in touch with by their children going to school. It’s likely to increase community spread (not likely, it will).

@whenwillthemadnessend

Not you again noble

SURPRISE!!!

Schools need to open again and quick.

@Shaiva

motherrunner because the most vulnerable people have been vaccinated. I’m not going to bother telling you the statistics about who this virus mostly effects as you should know that by now.

It was never on the cards for everyone to be vaccinated before the return to school. If we went off that we can wave good bye to the rest of the academic year.

The statistics.

Half the number of people in hospital are under 70.

Therefore half the number of people in hospital are working age.

Therefore anyone working in a crowded unventilated room which goes against all the covid secure guidelines all the places - which have to remain shut! - must have is at risk unvaccinated.

This to means teachers and I feel really sorry for them that a year on they are still getting this shit.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Nope definitely not luck, in my whole area hardly any schools had cases and if they did it was one or two. We are NE Scotland and it really hasn't been a issue img the schools here and our school should of been back full time , it's a joke the kids here have been off.

@noblegiraffe

But schools did not take all year groups back in June mainly because the government realised it wouldn't work

Y1 went back in at my DD’s school full time and socially distanced. Keyworker provision continued. She got no time in school.

What could have happened was Y1 time in school could have been halved and my DD could have been in the rest of the time.

No, not necessarily taught by their own class teacher, but better than at home full time taught by me and not seeing her peers at all.

I think that was due to the individual school, dc went back in June part time (2 days a week). It seemed to work very well, I’d accept part time schooling with online the rest of the week if that is a real mitigation over theatre mitigation.