The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

[noblegiraffe]

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

It needs to be a return that is not one that ends again after a few weeks. The infection levels seem to be about the same as in early December post the second period of restrictions, and by 8 March will be lower. Some of the impact on hospitals is less and especially now the over 70s largely have the vaccine.

Worth thinking that there is not the desire so much to gather at Easter as there is at Christmas, and also how much further the vaccine programme will have gone by then.

My choice were it my decision on the evidence I have seen would be 4-7 year olds at first then a gradual expansion. I would not have non-food retailers and hospitality until after Easter and in a phased way again.

closed for those who are too scared

That's an interesting interpretation oft he views of 38% of people.

@Londonmummy66

THh issue I have is that no one has actually done a proper review of the non-COVID impact of opening schools. Teenagers suffered enough MH problems preCOVID and they are really struggling now. Years 10-13 really need to be the first back as stress and anxiety is taking its toll.

We don't need to mess about looking at the non-covid impact of opening schools. What does that even mean? We just need to get them reopened.

@dividedwefall

As opinions are so divided, I don't see why schools can't open for those who want them open, and closed for those who are too scared?

So, if all the staff decide that, since they know what conditions are like in schools, they know it's not safe, and all the parents decide that they don't know what it is like in school, they have just seen the staged pictures on the BBC and anyway they want their child in school....what happens then??

@Tiktokersmiracle
Of course it wasn't. I know that a lot of my students are worried because they know that they have to act in certain ways in some places and then they come to school and suddenly the rules don't count. It makes no sense to them.
Teens get a bad press but I reckon 98% of the thousands I've taught over the years are bloody good people.

Have you got the full poll results, piggy - not clear whether your figure not in favour of full re-opening is in favour of keeping closed.

@noblegiraffe

Am I wrong assuming that most of those advocating ‘all school for some etc’ are not parents of those school years that this will deny in-school learning to?

Mine’s Y3. So didn’t go back in June last year and if it’s a phased return to certain year groups (most likely not Y3) would not be going back again.

If they wanted to reduce numbers in primary I would prefer she went back in on a rota than not back in at all.

Again though, how do you suggest primaries run a rota system? Half classes? What happens to those key worker children who need to be in all the time? There simply are not enough staff to supervise. If you are going to put 30 in a class they might as well all go back. It would work better in secondaries but again you are assuming that a Yr 7 child can be left at home alone.

Schools should open for all ages. Nothing anyone says will change my view on that. Teachers should be allowed to wear whatever PPE they choose.

Maybe we get the brave doctors and nurses, delivery drivers, supermarket workers, bus drivers and other pillars of society in to teach seeing as they have bravely worked through the worst of it, even in March when everyone was terrified.

All the teachers I know are ready to have the kids back in. Some have been vaccinated, some haven't. If there are a lot of teachers that want to stay off then they might want to reconsider their career. Most teachers have been amazing through this whole thing so I don't think there is a big issue with this.

[quote dipdips]@Monkeytennis97 Glad it isn't just me! Ban all SAGA holidays until every child has caught up to where they should be. My Mum has been amazing, she has been helping homeschool via zoom so I shouldn't really moan.[/quote]
Matt Hancock has booked his holiday, plenty of younger people have booked holidays so why are you picking on SAGA (not that I'd choose a SAGA holiday if I was booking a holiday) maybe think about the elderly and vulnerable who have been isolating for 12 months - no going to the park, going shopping, having holidays last August.

@AfternoonToffee she is nearly 14

Again though, how do you suggest primaries run a rota system?

Same as in June but with year groups on rotation. And keyworker kids trimmed back to account for the fact they will be in school part time anyway.

[quote MrsHamlet]@Tiktokersmiracle
Of course it wasn't. I know that a lot of my students are worried because they know that they have to act in certain ways in some places and then they come to school and suddenly the rules don't count. It makes no sense to them.
Teens get a bad press but I reckon 98% of the thousands I've taught over the years are bloody good people.[/quote]
Yep, I agree.

They try and be quite hard, DD, but that knocked them for 6.

@Linearpark

Apart from you, effectively. what a clever retort, how clever you are

thank you

"Stay in school longer in the warmer weather where it’s easier to ventilate and cases are likely to be down anyway."

Cases might be down, yes, but I keep seeing people suggesting that schools extending terms into warmer weather is somehow a good idea. Children (and staff!) have HAD IT by the middle of July. Very few schools have air-conditioning and many, many teachers on here have reported how their classrooms' windows don't open, or perhaps just an inch or two. My own room is flat-roofed and in the full glare of the sun from late morning onwards. It is like an OVEN in summer, with no through-breeze at all.
Little to no chance of effective learning to be done at that time of year at the best of times, let alone an extended fortnight.

@Delatron

I do think many posters fail to do an accurate risk assessment. Even if you are 80 and you catch Covid you are far more likely to survive than die. What do you think the stats are for 40/50/60 year olds?

It’s a mild illness for most, that hasn’t changed. You can’t argue with statistics. Go and have a read what your personal chance of dying from Covid is. The fear is ridiculous and disproportionate.

I'm not sure your sensible post will be welcome on this or the hundreds of others thread 🤣

It would work better in secondaries but again you are assuming that a Yr 7 child can be left at home alone.

It’s not about childcare, it’s about education.

That Y7 is currently at home all the time. In half the time would be better.

Would it not be possible to have one rolling thread on this rather than 100s everyday. Nothing changed in the past few days.
It is the same argument over and over and over and the two sides will never agree.
The posters who are not ready for schools to be back wont be ready after Easter and in May and in September.
Most healthy adults will not be vaccinated until then and no child will be.

Those who havent had the vaccine yet, have slim chance of dying, as much as from anything we face everday.
There maybe a new variant in the future, there maybe be an asteroid hitting us, maybe not. We cant stay home and wait for it.

You only get to be a child once and for short time.
Btw, we had no problems at all in our school Sep to Dec. 98% attendance.

Yes, I can scroll past

You're making assumptions divided that by asking for mitigation, we're saying we don't want to go in.
I want to go in knowing that the 54 year 11 and 15 year 13 students that I am responsible for can be meaningfully assessed for their exams without having that time disrupted. I don't need to reconsider my career... I just need to know that we're not going to be hokey cokeying again.

From a parents point of view a rota, although disruptive, is far easier to plan for than numerous bring sent home to isolate with no notice.

Maybe we get the brave doctors and nurses, delivery drivers, supermarket workers, bus drivers and other pillars of society in to teach seeing as they have bravely worked through the worst of it, even in March when everyone was terrified.

Yeah. I don't think my Amazon delivery guy has ever spent an hour at a time in a small room with 30 teenagers. 5 times a day. In fact, my son in law delivers for Amazon and he has no contact with people at all. He's masked and well away from people and does not go into their homes. It's a safe job. Safer than being in a classroom.

And I'm pretty sure I don't want him teaching my A level student Chemistry...am not entirely sure he's qualified to do so. Nor, I suspect, is the woman who works in the local Spar. I may be wrong of course. She may well have a Chemistry degree, a PGCE and be up to date and familiar with AQAs exam spec.

I do love the idea that anyone can teach. No need for a degree in the subject or any training. Such a bollocks idea.

@pinkunicornwithacatonitsback

The thing that I still don't understand regarding primaries is why they cannot use community centres/church halls etc.

For example, in my village school, we have 300 pupils, split across 3 units as we have mixed year groups (1-2/3-4 and 5-6). Down the road literally a 2 min walk away is the community centre which remains shut. The other direction another 2 min walk away is the church hall.

I genuinely don't understand why the school can't be split so that years 1-2 are in the school, years 3-4 in the community centre and years 5-6 in the church hall. The teachers aren't crossing bubbles, so that helps to keep them separate.

Obviously, this is a unique situation to our particular school, but why can't these empty buildings be used? Why can't schools be investing in outdoor marquees so that learning can take place on the playground? Particularly as the weather starts to get warmer? Surely it's better to get kids having an education and finding out proactive solutions to make it happen?

The excuse always seems to be money. Why has not a single penny been invested in education whereas the magic money tree is coughing up for every other sector?

I'm aware there's going to be cities where this is difficult but there must be solutions that can happen. It very much feels a "won't" rather than a "can't"

But how do we staff these extra buildings? I am the only teacher in my class of 32, so if I split them to enable distancing who supervises the other half?

We simply don't have the teachers to make this viable.

My kids want to be back at school. I want them back. Need them back. But I want them to stay back.

They need to vaccinate the staff and have a rolling programme of testing the kids. Masks would help, but immunity and testing should be a priority.

I agree, schools aren't safe, and the all or nothing approach is just silly. I get that people are at their wits end and kids are struggling but personally I would rather do it right this time and not be back in a full lockdown again, or a situation where school bubbles are bursting all over the place.

Yes, many of the most vulnerable in society have been vaccinated, but if we open up too fast we run a very real risk of mutations running riot and a significant amount of working age people and parents suffering from the longer term health implications of COVID.

My personal feeling is that schools should reopen after Easter, once the r rate and case numbers are even lower and however many more millions have been vaccinated. Keep full time key worker/vulnerable bubbles and move to a rota system so all students benefit from time in school. Give direction to schools ASAP so that they have a half term to liaise with staff, parents and pupils to implement whatever measures are necessary. It also gives time for teachers to get vaccinated.

Children absolutely need to be back in school ASAP and for as much time as possible, which is why I really don't think we can afford to get this wrong again. People talk about the mental health implications of children being off as a reason for getting back full time, and it's fucking hard, I get it. I'm stuck at home with a 5 year old and a 3 month old and it's bad enough, God knows what state I'd be in if I had to add work into the mix and DD hadn't done as well as she has, but let's not get back here again.

I am surprised that there has been no emergency vaccination of teachers. To me, it would therefore be wrong to fully open schools on 8 March. Especially as there is only a bit of the term left - 2.5-3 weeks ish? Why not keep kids off for those days - it's only 15 school days or less - and make very sure that by the beginning of the summer term that every teacher wanting a jab has had one. My kids are taught by a huge mix of people: older, diabetic, bame, mixed up with very young 20 somethings with no health issues. I would hate to see any of my kids' teachers in hospital just so my kids could go to school for 15 days.