Anti-lockdown campaigners using children to push their agenda

[noblegiraffe]

I can't be the only one disgusted with how certain groups are using faux concern about children to push the earliest dismantling of lockdown restrictions.

They are loudly catastrophising on the front pages of the press about our kids. The lost generation. £40,000 in lost earnings. Articles about schools full of traumatised kids suffering PTSD caused by lockdown.

And the solution they propose is always to re-open schools as early as possible. Even before March 8th. Regardless of covid.

Now, the situation in schools before Christmas was awful. Some areas of the country had less than 50% attendance due to the new variant ripping through secondary schools. Secondary school kids were the most infected subset of the population by far, and are now the second least infected subset of the population behind the 70+ age group after schools were closed, demonstrating that there was a massive problem with transmission in secondary schools. It wasn't good for pupils' mental health or education to be in a situation when they didn't know if they'd be in school or out at the drop of a hat. But before Christmas, there was complete media silence on the impact that this was having on children.

CAMHS has been devastated by cuts. Waiting lists are intolerable and children in dire need of support don't even qualify. Same for social care around vulnerable children.

Yet you won't hear these people clamouring for schools re-opening as soon as possible talking at all about how to improve safety measures in schools to prevent the scenario we had before Christmas happening again. You won't hear them demanding more funding for children's mental health services and for more support for social care services.

And the reason you won't hear that is that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

The reason that they want schools re-opened as quickly as possible is because the message was that schools had to open first.

They can't get what they really want open (everything else) until schools are open, hence the massive focus on schools and how terrible things are for children.

This catastrophising isn't good for parents or kids. It's scaremongering and unhelpful.

I know that there are kids (and parents) really struggling with their mental health and worried about their education. Blaring out messages about how terrible things are and how they will never recover because you want to hype up the message about schools going back is irresponsible and sickening.

We need sensible and calm conversations about how to support children and parents. We need funding for schools and massive investment in support services. We need a long-term program of recovery, not 9 months of a Catch-Up Tsar and quick fixes. We need a measured and sensible approach to schools re-opening that won't see kids in and out and in and out due to lack of mitigation measures causing rampant covid spread (particularly with the new variant).

We need these anti-lockdown campaigners to shut up and stop dominating the narrative.

Reopening in a safe way means the same controls as you would find in a place of work? 2m distancing, kids in on a rota so they have some online learning, some face to face, PPE worn, actual ventilation, isolating all contacts of close cases not just the one they have sat next to in English... it's not rocket science, but seems to be completely beyond the DfE.

I can't be bothered to scroll through pages of teacher bashing, but the kids I know who are struggling the most with online learning are exactly the kids who were struggling in school with the uncertainty of isolations and the worry of taking the infection home to parents.
Opening schools as they are doesn't help their problems, it gives them a whole set of new ones.

SchrodingersUnicorn
I agree. There have been countless suggestions since before the summer, but the DfE decided to shut them all down and close schools to most children (probably because the government were too busy making their mates rich with lucrative contracts to spend money on schools).

@LolaSmiles

It's nothing to do with nobles name. If you're going to make big claims that people don't care about children, the government are shit but have absolutely no idea what they should be doing then what's the point? There's been thread after thread with ideas, just posters on this thread are conveniently ignoring it.

I love the idea that nobody should be able to criticise government policy or lobby group agendas unless they have a full plan that could be implemented though. It's a nice way of trying to shut people down or discredit reasonable concerns.

I'm not trying to shut anyone down.

I mean, that's something this group specifically did do with the flowers so...

Jfc listen to yourselves. I wrote an extremely long OP talking about issues with campaign groups like the CRG emotively catastrophising the impact of this pandemic on our children, not out of genuine concern, but cynically, out of personal interest. Others have pointed out that the same thing is happening to cancer patients and domestic abuse victims.

But the problem with me pointing this out is that I haven’t done Boris’ job for him and laid out a detailed roadmap for re-opening schools and probably also haven’t done the Catch-Up Tsar’s job for him of detailing how to get kids back on track. Despite it not being the point of this thread.

How long would you have liked my OP to have been? And it wouldn’t have mattered, if I’d given a detailed roadmap you’d have just whined about that instead of engaging with what I actually wanted to discuss.

It seems the only thing that some people can contribute to this thread is their dislike of me.

@emilyontmoor the same hospital staff who have their children in school? I'm very sorry for the spread of covid but why are kids bearing the brunt when like I said companies aren't shut down for outbreaks, people can break rules as much as they like (my neighbours haven't had a day of lockdown in the past year) and we can all still go down the road and pick up a coffee and burger. Primary schools are different from secondary.

If a school had students and teachers wearing masks at all times then they were going against the government guidance (and guidance for schools in not voluntary despite the nomer "guidance".
Masks were NOT allowed in classrooms for students or teachers - which is where they spend the vast majority of their day, breathing the same air. Some students were allowed to wear masks in my school as long as they had medical evidence.
You could actually see Covid being spread around seating plans - and the vast majority of parents would be unaware. Partly because the symptoms the teenagers got were mainly gastro or headaches. Which are not symptoms you can test for. But then a week later or so they would be off because a household adult had tested positive. And by then another student had headaches etc.....

I'm not trying to shut anyone down

No but you are going on and on about it.

I mean, that's something this group specifically did do with the flowers so

The flowers were not to shut people down, more a refusal to engage with trolls and the usual suspects. Such types were always free to keep on coming back....and they do: Proverbs 26:11

😷

@motherrunner I'm really sorry - not every school but sadly the amount of stress and work for staff doesn't always equate to the most effective outcome. It's a problem the teaching profession has - if everyone is stressed and exhausted must be doing things right.

All I can say is comparing schools with my friends some have had crazy ways of managing risks and some more sensible. It's no criticism on teachers and again we have to get away from that. School leaders shouldn't feel threatened talking to another school about what has worked better for them. In some cases nothing, but in many cases I'm sure something might have helped and less pressure on staff.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation err because there were still cases

@EnemyOfEducationNo1 the head is allowed to enforce masks - they did in my son's school

If that is what teachers want to happen then ask your head

@echt

I'm not trying to shut anyone down

No but you are going on and on about it.

I mean, that's something this group specifically did do with the flowers so

The flowers were not to shut people down, more a refusal to engage with trolls and the usual suspects. Such types were always free to keep on coming back....and they do: Proverbs 26:11

😷

It's a forum. That's what it's for.

The flowers were to shut people down a fair few were deleted by MN because even they could see what they actually meant.

What do you mean by such types? Care to explain?

It's funny because you aways without fail start to get nasty when people question you.

The absolute worst case scenario would be opening schools in a way that doesn’t support community infection levels continuing to fall.

If children are in and out in the way they were before Christmas, that would be really damaging to both education and the MH of children.

There are absolutely some factions who are using a narrative about children losing out to further their particular needs, with little regard for the wider picture. In general, they paint teachers as being obstructive, lazy yadayadayadaaaaa.

This is hugely offensive because teachers have been fighting against the inequality in the education system for years. We’ve been safeguarding. We’ve been supporting families. We’ve been trying to close the attainment gap. FOR YEARS. Not for 6 months.

And you know what? The minute schools are back to normal - when all that inequality and safeguarding and children losing out is still happening - those voices will be silent. You know who will he still working to change that stuff? Yup. Teachers.

@Remmy123 You have no idea if there would have been more cases without masks? Perhaps the masks did help. On a population level masks do seem to be limiting the spread, otherwise why are we bothering in supermarkets etc.

@snookie00 absolutely and all the people on her claiming to be only interested in vulnerable children? Well the best way to help the ones that need it most is to open schools. The pressure on most families is unbearable, I can't imagine how much harder it is to have mental health, domestic violence, poverty in the mix. My school isn't offering spaces to families facing this - they should but they aren't and no-one really cares because they're a nice middle class school and can get away with too much.

@noblegiraffe

Jfc listen to yourselves. I wrote an extremely long OP talking about issues with campaign groups like the CRG emotively catastrophising the impact of this pandemic on our children, not out of genuine concern, but cynically, out of personal interest. Others have pointed out that the same thing is happening to cancer patients and domestic abuse victims.

But the problem with me pointing this out is that I haven’t done Boris’ job for him and laid out a detailed roadmap for re-opening schools and probably also haven’t done the Catch-Up Tsar’s job for him of detailing how to get kids back on track. Despite it not being the point of this thread.

How long would you have liked my OP to have been? And it wouldn’t have mattered, if I’d given a detailed roadmap you’d have just whined about that instead of engaging with what I actually wanted to discuss.

It seems the only thing that some people can contribute to this thread is their dislike of me.

Oh mate. Don't flatter yourself.

You wrote an offensive op. People didn't like it.

You have no answers, just nasty little comments thrown in here and there and you wonder why people don't engage in discussion about the "point" you were making?

I mean, that's something this group specifically did do with the flowers so...
The flowers weren't shutting down discussion. It was not engaging with the same old posters with their same old arguments: 'teachers don't want to work, teachers don't care, teachers want the schools shut'.

If you looked behind the same old goady arguments, there was actually a lot of debate and discussion between parents and teachers (remember most of the teachers on here are also parents too).

How long would you have liked my OP to have been? And it wouldn’t have mattered, if I’d given a detailed roadmap you’d have just whined about that instead of engaging with what I actually wanted to discuss.
Sadly you're right.

*It's the same story with these right wingers and Us4Them type groups. They don't actually care about children and families. Their actions have shown they don't care (eg care about children and disadvantage, but vote to keep them hungry).

Unfortunately selectively exploiting concerns for personal and political gain is the priority in this crisis.*

@LolaSmiles yes this was exactly the point @noblegiraffe made and why she started this thread
And a point that many of also involved in children's services wholeheartedly agree with
It's a shame that many posters have misunderstood this to mean we shouldn't care about children being at home and their struggle
Of course we care, of course we want them back at school, or course they struggle
But the point of this thread was different

@LolaSmiles

I mean, that's something this group specifically did do with the flowers so... The flowers weren't shutting down discussion. It was not engaging with the same old posters with their same old arguments: 'teachers don't want to work, teachers don't care, teachers want the schools shut'.

If you looked behind the same old goady arguments, there was actually a lot of debate and discussion between parents and teachers (remember most of the teachers on here are also parents too).

How long would you have liked my OP to have been? And it wouldn’t have mattered, if I’d given a detailed roadmap you’d have just whined about that instead of engaging with what I actually wanted to discuss.
Sadly you're right.

It's funny because I remember lots of flowers and yet I never said either of those things because I don't think they're true.

The flowers were used to basically tell people to fuck off. Were not stupid you know. You can deny it until you're blue in the face but we all know it's a big fat lie.

The flowers were used on teaching threads when the teacher bashing started. Not to tell people to fuck off.

@noblegiraffe

Jfc listen to yourselves. I wrote an extremely long OP talking about issues with campaign groups like the CRG emotively catastrophising the impact of this pandemic on our children, not out of genuine concern, but cynically, out of personal interest. Others have pointed out that the same thing is happening to cancer patients and domestic abuse victims.

But the problem with me pointing this out is that I haven’t done Boris’ job for him and laid out a detailed roadmap for re-opening schools and probably also haven’t done the Catch-Up Tsar’s job for him of detailing how to get kids back on track. Despite it not being the point of this thread.

How long would you have liked my OP to have been? And it wouldn’t have mattered, if I’d given a detailed roadmap you’d have just whined about that instead of engaging with what I actually wanted to discuss.

It seems the only thing that some people can contribute to this thread is their dislike of me.

I actually don't think they dislike you noblegiraffe, (not that I imagine you give a toss about their regard, what sane person would?) it's a new way of attacking what you say by:

Lying about what you've posted
Demanding ludicrously detailed plans

It's in line with the faux-naive, oh do explain things to me, I don't understand masks/INSET days/teachers' salaries/role of the unions, etc.etc.approach adopted over the last few months when the subject of education is raised.

I used to think it was just piss-poor reading skills on their part, but suspect it may be a pose.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

The flowers were used on teaching threads when the teacher bashing started. Not to tell people to fuck off.

Well I never once teacher bashed so explain why people replied to me with flowers? Go on... I'd love to hear it.

"Noble shared evidence above that children are usually the index (first) case in a household. Anecdotally this was an asymptomatic child"

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation
I've heard this before and seen a screenshot but it doesn't make sense. Most hospitalisations have been in the sector of society furthest removed from children. I think it must mean in a household with a child, the child is the index case. That makes more sense as most households with younger children are homeworking so school is the only 'risk' but still very small compared to what is happening in the wider population.

Most people with covid have not caught it from a child. Even more true of the thousands of people who have caught covid in the past 2 months when schools have been closed.

Plenty of scientists would doubt and disprove the statement that noble has made so forgive me if I used a bit of critical thinking and listen to qualified people not some screenshot on Mumsnet

@SmileEachDay

The absolute worst case scenario would be opening schools in a way that doesn’t support community infection levels continuing to fall.

If children are in and out in the way they were before Christmas, that would be really damaging to both education and the MH of children.

There are absolutely some factions who are using a narrative about children losing out to further their particular needs, with little regard for the wider picture. In general, they paint teachers as being obstructive, lazy yadayadayadaaaaa.

This is hugely offensive because teachers have been fighting against the inequality in the education system for years. We’ve been safeguarding. We’ve been supporting families. We’ve been trying to close the attainment gap. FOR YEARS. Not for 6 months.

And you know what? The minute schools are back to normal - when all that inequality and safeguarding and children losing out is still happening - those voices will be silent. You know who will he still working to change that stuff? Yup. Teachers.

@SmileEachDay Well said 👏

I don’t know unless l see the post......

@Snookie00

Both sides (teachers unions and the so called nasty pro business lobby) are piggybacking on the crisis to push for changes that they want. Both sides are dressing it up with faux concern about kids. Teachers unions are there to get the best deal for teachers. Business leaders are lobbying for their members.

No one is representing children. Parents and pupils are caught in the middle of this turf war as neither side is putting children first.

Yes