Anti-lockdown campaigners using children to push their agenda

[noblegiraffe]

I can't be the only one disgusted with how certain groups are using faux concern about children to push the earliest dismantling of lockdown restrictions.

They are loudly catastrophising on the front pages of the press about our kids. The lost generation. £40,000 in lost earnings. Articles about schools full of traumatised kids suffering PTSD caused by lockdown.

And the solution they propose is always to re-open schools as early as possible. Even before March 8th. Regardless of covid.

Now, the situation in schools before Christmas was awful. Some areas of the country had less than 50% attendance due to the new variant ripping through secondary schools. Secondary school kids were the most infected subset of the population by far, and are now the second least infected subset of the population behind the 70+ age group after schools were closed, demonstrating that there was a massive problem with transmission in secondary schools. It wasn't good for pupils' mental health or education to be in a situation when they didn't know if they'd be in school or out at the drop of a hat. But before Christmas, there was complete media silence on the impact that this was having on children.

CAMHS has been devastated by cuts. Waiting lists are intolerable and children in dire need of support don't even qualify. Same for social care around vulnerable children.

Yet you won't hear these people clamouring for schools re-opening as soon as possible talking at all about how to improve safety measures in schools to prevent the scenario we had before Christmas happening again. You won't hear them demanding more funding for children's mental health services and for more support for social care services.

And the reason you won't hear that is that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

The reason that they want schools re-opened as quickly as possible is because the message was that schools had to open first.

They can't get what they really want open (everything else) until schools are open, hence the massive focus on schools and how terrible things are for children.

This catastrophising isn't good for parents or kids. It's scaremongering and unhelpful.

I know that there are kids (and parents) really struggling with their mental health and worried about their education. Blaring out messages about how terrible things are and how they will never recover because you want to hype up the message about schools going back is irresponsible and sickening.

We need sensible and calm conversations about how to support children and parents. We need funding for schools and massive investment in support services. We need a long-term program of recovery, not 9 months of a Catch-Up Tsar and quick fixes. We need a measured and sensible approach to schools re-opening that won't see kids in and out and in and out due to lack of mitigation measures causing rampant covid spread (particularly with the new variant).

We need these anti-lockdown campaigners to shut up and stop dominating the narrative.

[quote MessAllOver]@gallbladderpain. You're right, of course... it is a mixed picture. From what I can see, many schools seem to be requiring children to attend an online registration session at beginning/end of the day and have some sessions in between. Others are offering very little/no live teaching for primary pupils. Some contact parents when work isn't submitted promptly, some seem more relaxed. My own view is that screen time for the under 10s should be limited so I think less is more for primary... but I know others disagree.

But I've realised how far this discussion has digressed from the subject of the OP, so going to try to refrain from going any more off-topic beyond saying that I do think families need more support, financial and otherwise .[/quote]
Yes that it one point I agree with you on, the screen time. The way ours is set up I have the ability to print out the work (or collect a printed pack from the school if we have no access to printing facilities) so they only need to watch the teaching videos and then can get on with the work on paper and pencil so the screen time is minimal. On an average day I would say less than 30 minutes is on a screen for the Y4 child and less than that again with more of an emphasis on practical work (number work using lego etc) with the YR child

@gallbladderpain
I am not going to contact school to complain about those because I can solve them myself and the teacher does not need anymore stress or workload.
Thank you. I actually don't mind parents getting in touch as long as they're reasonable. Luckily, most are.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

Thanks *@gallbladderpain*. I only 'know' secondary and have a friend trying to navigate nut allergies from reception next year and school insist they're following guidance that a nut ban isn't best practise. (back to covid now!)

Oh I'm not sure what the blanket policy is but I would imagine with a very young child it makes sense to have a blanket ban (even if its just across their class) especially if they have a severe airborne nut allergy with anaphylaxis and I do think schools would have to risk assess this and make changes if necessary for the safety of that child. We have allergies to deal with as well but thankfully nothing serious that would warrant the need to impact on anyone else but the child has an individual allergy plan with adjustments (for school meals) drawn up with the school. DC is fine with self managing, knows not to eat anything other than their own food but a contact or airborne nut allergy wouldn't be able to be self managed by a young child.

@EarlGreywithLemon

Ok then- to those who want to rush to open schools now-now-now, without mitigating measures (rotas, masks, social distancing, blended learning). You believe covid is a “non event” for most younger people. I disagree, but fair enough. I give you this scenario though : open schools before enough people are vaccinated and the resulting high levels of community transmission will mean more mutations. The Bristol mutation (similar to the South African) is already more vaccine resistant. The next one could be completely resistant. At that point we’ll have to lock down again, and it will take 6-9 months to tweak the vaccines and get production up sufficiently to start re-immunising everyone over again. That’s another year of disrupted education for children. Is that what you want? Isn’t it better to take it slowly at this point and be out of this mess by the start of the next academic year? Never mind that the next mutation could be more harmful to children. Is this a risk worth taking?

But even if we waited until everyone was vaccinated to open everything up again, if there is a new mutation that is completely vaccine resistant what is supposed to happen then?

Apologies for the garbled post. I’ll try again:
If it is going to mutate it will, whether or not the children are in school.
No. The higher the case numbers, the more the virus spreads, the higher the chance of a mutation. Conversely, if there are very few cases, there is a much lower chance of a mutation.
If cases are low, say under 1,000 a day, track and trace can also keep track of them better. Not even the best track and trace will ever work at high case numbers.

But even if we waited until everyone was vaccinated to open everything up again, if there is a new mutation that is completely vaccine resistant what is supposed to happen then?
Vaccination cuts transmission (as has been shown in the case of the Oxford vaccine). Everyone vaccinated = much, much lower transmission. Much lower transmission = far lower chance of a mutation.

@Birkenshock

Haven't RTFT but I work in CAHMS and am desperate to see schools return. Our workload is unsustainably high, and everything new we've seen come in in the past year has almost entirely been issues arisen due to lockdown. We're inundated with parents begging us to speak to the schools and seeing if their kids can have a keyworker place for even a day or two a week, because they're that worried about their child.

Not everything will be solved with getting the kids back in school, but it's the first step to helping them massively, and I'm seriously worried about the consequences of hundreds of the kids on our caseloads if it doesn't happen on 8th.

Couldn't agree more and the teachers I know personally would all agree with you.
Sadly the NEU and a proportion of teachers determined to put their own concerns and their political opposition to the government above the needs of children seem to prevail Of course we need to be sensible and observe reasonable precautions but I agree schools need to return

@EarlGreywithLemon

But even if we waited until everyone was vaccinated to open everything up again, if there is a new mutation that is completely vaccine resistant what is supposed to happen then? Vaccination cuts transmission (as has been shown in the case of the Oxford vaccine). Everyone vaccinated = much, much lower transmission. Much lower transmission = far lower chance of a mutation.

Yes but it would only cut transmission for the current variants it does work against, how do you know it would reduce transmission against new variants?

Sadly the NEU and a proportion of teachers determined to put their own concerns and their political opposition to the government above the needs of children seem to prevail

The unions and a proportion of teachers have no say at all. If they had a say, we’d be going back with safety measures in place.

The government follow advice. Did you see the interview with Sage on the BBC? It’s scientists saying that schools cannot open as they did in September. They also suggested measures that should be put in place;
Ventilation
Masks
Rotas

But the government don’t want to spend money, so it’s easier to prolong school closures.

Schools will open on March 8th, but I’m not sure it’ll be for all pupils in one go.

Wales are having children aged 3-7 return to school on Monday 22nd (depending on no new mutations arising beforehand).

Then they will wait a few weeks and decide who to bring back next. If anyone. It will depend on cases.

Mark Drakeford has also talked about rotas in secondary school to enable social distancing. Not nice, but necessary.

Once again....these people are not following the union, they are following the science.

Children are largely missing out on socialising. Education can always be caught up. But socialising is exactly what we are all having to avoid ....it’s cruel. But this is a virus that spreads through human to human contact.

I’m sorry. I truly am. I wish we could all go back to how it was in 2019. But for now, that’s not going to happen. I just keep my fingers crossed that going into the summer and autumn, things will start to get better.

I think the argument that evolves from these threads is pointless. Because none of us get a say. Decisions will be made for us and we have no choice but to just comply...like right now.

@QueenOfTheDoubleWide but schools need to return in a way that minimises the chance of them closing again (in another national lockdown) or bubbles closing again and again. Otherwise the mental health problems of children will worsen again.

Sadly the NEU and a proportion of teachers determined to put their own concerns and their political opposition to the government above the needs of children seem to prevail

The unions cannot instruct teachers to stay away from school. Nor can they close them.

Of course we need to be sensible and observe reasonable precautions but I agree schools need to return

In what way do the union and "a proportion of teachers" oppose reasonable precautions?

By the way, I see you personally know teachers who agree with you but ascribe vague motivation to a nameless "proportion"of teachers. How does that work?

At least when you do have to go back to work Noble you will have less time on your hands to write such offensive and divisive posts.

@noblegiraffe

". And we need massive funding to support those who won't. CAMHS is on its knees."

Finally something we can both agree on. Sadly though the Government has so far spent £300 billion (incl of course £22 billion spent on track and trace and not forgetting £650 million on Eat out to spread help out). This means that in a post covid world additional money for mental health care is very unlikely to be forthcoming.

Even worse given there is a limit on getting this £300 billion back through taxation, this means that a large proportion will come from cuts in services (especially under a Tory Government).

The NHS is now a sacred cow so no cuts there, the police will be desperately needed to maintain order, benefits for the older generation won't be touched as they vote, social benefits will probably go up because of increased unemployment, the other areas such as defence, transport etc are too small to make a difference which leaves ...education spending to be the target of cuts.

So in summary future spending on children whether it be education or mental health unfairly but likely to be lower in future not higher.

@Shehz21
I've reported your post. Absolutely no need to be so rude.

@EarlGreywithLemon

But even if we waited until everyone was vaccinated to open everything up again, if there is a new mutation that is completely vaccine resistant what is supposed to happen then? Vaccination cuts transmission (as has been shown in the case of the Oxford vaccine). Everyone vaccinated = much, much lower transmission. Much lower transmission = far lower chance of a mutation.

But EarlGrey, may I ask whether you and Noblegiraffe are actually advocating the same thing? I'm pretty sure Noblegiraffe doesn't want schools back even when teachers are vaccinated which is what she mentioned upthread as there will still be community transmission? And glad that you cleared the transmission issue up as many of those supporting the OP actually mentioned wrongly upthread that the vaccines do not cut down transmission. And the same also applies for the Pfizer vaccine.

Shehz21 what’s so offensive?
My Dd (15) was perfectly healthy then the next morning a virus had attacked her brain and she was fitting for hours. No idea what the virus was, as they couldn't identify it in the weeks she spent in hospital and it was before they had tests for covid. She is classed as CV. But she is not ECV so has to go into school. Noble is suggesting ways that would make my Dd safer in school along with the teachers. But as it is Dd has to go to school knowing what happened the last time she caught a virus. There are thousands of children with acquired brain injuries, immunosuppressant etc. whose parents are worried about them going back to school.
Surely any decent society debates how to protect the more vulnerable people?

[quote sherrystrull]@Shehz21
I've reported your post. Absolutely no need to be so rude.[/quote]

Uh..

I'm pretty sure Noblegiraffe doesn't want schools back even when teachers are vaccinated which is what she mentioned upthread as there will still be community transmission?
You are completely wrong

@Zandathepanda

Shehz21 what’s so offensive? My Dd (15) was perfectly healthy then the next morning a virus had attacked her brain and she was fitting for hours. No idea what the virus was, as they couldn't identify it in the weeks she spent in hospital and it was before they had tests for covid. She is classed as CV. But she is not ECV so has to go into school. Noble is suggesting ways that would make my Dd safer in school along with the teachers. But as it is Dd has to go to school knowing what happened the last time she caught a virus. There are thousands of children with acquired brain injuries, immunosuppressant etc. whose parents are worried about them going back to school. Surely any decent society debates how to protect the more vulnerable people?

Ah right I think you are referring to the post that's in bold. This is somebody else's post that I meant to quote but got bold instead.

I'm sorry about your DD.

However I'm still confused as to the ways Noblegiraffe is suggesting for safe school reopening? Clearly she believes just vaccinating teachers aren't enough and the schools in my area all allow teachers to be in the PPE they want.

Again I'm sorry about your DD. But I'm reading similar horrific occurrences that happened to kids due to the effect of lockdown on this very thread so I can see both sides of the argument.

I'm pretty sure Noblegiraffe doesn't want schools back even when teachers are vaccinated which is what she mentioned upthread as there will still be community transmission?

Er, that’s not what I think at all. What a weird claim.

18:28noblegiraffe

We have to mitigate risks and to my mind that means offering every teacher a vaccine

That misses the point about the issue with unmitigated transmission among pupils in schools and the impact on the wider community. We need to control covid effectively for the vaccination programme to be successful.

Okay then so the solution is not only vaccinating teachers basically you would not be happy with a reopening of schools even when teachers would be vaccinated am I right?
What else should be done according to you?
I think on this particular thread you haven't been able to put forward your suggestions. I'm sure quite a few would be genuinely interested to know more about what could be done from your POV.

Okay then so the solution is not only vaccinating teachers basically you would not be happy with a reopening of schools even when teachers would be vaccinated am I right?

No, you’re wrong.

@Shehz21

At least when you do have to go back to work Noble you will have less time on your hands to write such offensive and divisive posts.

Yes I think the op was quite rude too