Anti-lockdown campaigners using children to push their agenda

[noblegiraffe]

I can't be the only one disgusted with how certain groups are using faux concern about children to push the earliest dismantling of lockdown restrictions.

They are loudly catastrophising on the front pages of the press about our kids. The lost generation. £40,000 in lost earnings. Articles about schools full of traumatised kids suffering PTSD caused by lockdown.

And the solution they propose is always to re-open schools as early as possible. Even before March 8th. Regardless of covid.

Now, the situation in schools before Christmas was awful. Some areas of the country had less than 50% attendance due to the new variant ripping through secondary schools. Secondary school kids were the most infected subset of the population by far, and are now the second least infected subset of the population behind the 70+ age group after schools were closed, demonstrating that there was a massive problem with transmission in secondary schools. It wasn't good for pupils' mental health or education to be in a situation when they didn't know if they'd be in school or out at the drop of a hat. But before Christmas, there was complete media silence on the impact that this was having on children.

CAMHS has been devastated by cuts. Waiting lists are intolerable and children in dire need of support don't even qualify. Same for social care around vulnerable children.

Yet you won't hear these people clamouring for schools re-opening as soon as possible talking at all about how to improve safety measures in schools to prevent the scenario we had before Christmas happening again. You won't hear them demanding more funding for children's mental health services and for more support for social care services.

And the reason you won't hear that is that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

The reason that they want schools re-opened as quickly as possible is because the message was that schools had to open first.

They can't get what they really want open (everything else) until schools are open, hence the massive focus on schools and how terrible things are for children.

This catastrophising isn't good for parents or kids. It's scaremongering and unhelpful.

I know that there are kids (and parents) really struggling with their mental health and worried about their education. Blaring out messages about how terrible things are and how they will never recover because you want to hype up the message about schools going back is irresponsible and sickening.

We need sensible and calm conversations about how to support children and parents. We need funding for schools and massive investment in support services. We need a long-term program of recovery, not 9 months of a Catch-Up Tsar and quick fixes. We need a measured and sensible approach to schools re-opening that won't see kids in and out and in and out due to lack of mitigation measures causing rampant covid spread (particularly with the new variant).

We need these anti-lockdown campaigners to shut up and stop dominating the narrative.

Shehz21 Apologies to attributing the ‘offensive’ word to you but your post shows you support that statement. Yes there are horrific things that go on to children both in and out of lockdown (I used to work as a teacher and support worker). But we need to get it right as possible. My child has ‘an acquired head injury’ that could happen to anyone’s child. The rest of the family were exposed to the virus she was and it didn’t affect us. When something like that happens it changes your mindset. And you start looking at ways at preventing it happening to others too.

1day the Government has so far spent £300 billion (incl of course £22 billion spent on track and trace....

In spite of the fact we had in place a public health infrastructure of public labs and environmental health teams who had the skills and just needed the funding to do it better and more cheaply. You are right, if they could throw that much money at inexperienced cronies who made a hash of it they certainly won’t be directing any money at our children or Cancer sufferers or any of the other parts of society who deserve a decent competent government with integrity that protects us all. As Noble says it is all faux concern.

@Zandathepanda Tbf I do find parts do the opening posts offensive and dismissive and I am not the first one to be finding the OP so aggressive in all her posts.

"Yet you won't hear these people clamouring for schools re-opening as soon as possible talking at all about how to improve safety measures in schools to prevent the scenario we had before Christmas happening again. You won't hear them demanding more funding for children's mental health services and for more support for social care services.

And the reason you won't hear that is that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT."

I mean honestly I don't know how the OP reads the mind of all the people who are current advocating schools reopening on the 8th.
Like you say when something like what happened to you happens, it changes your mindset.
A similar point that @TrustTheGeneGenie tried to make earlier on that was blatantly dismissed

I mean honestly I don't know how the OP reads the mind of all the people who are current advocating schools reopening on the 8th.

Good grief. It might actually blow your mind to hear that I’m not totally averse to schools going back on the 8th and that I don’t hold teachers being vaccinated as a definite prerequisite to this happening.

But you know, you carry on.

I mean honestly I don't know how the OP reads the mind of all the people who are current advocating schools reopening on the 8th.

The OP has made no such claims. Read the OP's OP.

@noblegiraffe

I mean honestly I don't know how the OP reads the mind of all the people who are current advocating schools reopening on the 8th.

Good grief. It might actually blow your mind to hear that I’m not totally averse to schools going back on the 8th and that I don’t hold teachers being vaccinated as a definite prerequisite to this happening.

But you know, you carry on.

The answer to ZandathePanda was about how I believe you had a dismissive and patronizing tone in your opening post, maybe you let yourself get carried away by emotions with regards to how strongly you feel about this subject.

Glad to read this update though OP, it does blow my mind indeed!

Glad to read this update though OP, it does blow my mind indeed!

Now reread the OP? Maybe you got that wrong too? The tone is in your head after all.

shez can you not get the distinction between criticising people who are prepared to exploit any cause to their anti lockdown agenda, when in reality it is driven by right wing politics, and being able to understand that some people for diverse and valid personal reasons really want to see their children back in school. We might disagree on whether that is right for wider society but in the case of certain politicians and right wing politicians the moral case is very clear. They have no record of concern previously, for any of the groups they have co-opted to their cause, why would you believe them now?

Clearly not only in mine so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

@Emilyontmoor

shez can you not get the distinction between criticising people who are prepared to exploit any cause to their anti lockdown agenda, when in reality it is driven by right wing politics, and being able to understand that some people for diverse and valid personal reasons really want to see their children back in school. We might disagree on whether that is right for wider society but in the case of certain politicians and right wing politicians the moral case is very clear. They have no record of concern previously, for any of the groups they have co-opted to their cause, why would you believe them now?

With regards to the politicians I agree with you.

However slinging mud on parents who share the same views as those politicians, I disagree with and that has been done extensively on this thread.

@Shehz21

Clearly not only in mine so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Ah but they have a dartboard with my name on the bullseye so what can you do?

However slinging mud on parents who share the same views as those politicians

That using kids as an emotive argument to get your own way is reasonable?

I’ve seen people misread my point and think I’m having a go at people who want schools back because kids are struggling with lockdown.

That’s not what I’m saying at all.

However slinging mud on parents who share the same views as those politicians, I disagree with and that has been done extensively on this thread I disagree, lots of mud has been slung, but in the main at straw men.

Generally, I find I disagree with a lot of Noble’s covid posts.

But honestly, if you think Steve Baker, and the rest of the CRG, genuinely give a shit about the mental health of us peasants, or the educational outcomes of our children, you are deluding yourselves.

They just want their serfs back in work, and they think this is the quickest way of achieving that.

Haven't read the full thread, but agree with the OP. I am sick and tired of reading the narrative that all children and parents of school age children are desperate for face to face teaching to resume. My DD is in Year 13. Her (state) school has got its act together this time around and is providing good quality online learning. For DD the prospect of returning to face to face teaching on 8 March causes her significant anxiety. She is not overly worried about catching Covid in terms of impact on her own health, but is very concerned about passing it to DH who is in his mid-50s and is prone to health problems. So concerned is DD that she has seriously suggested that she isolates from DH and me within the home if she is forced back. I don't see that as being at all good for her mental health. Obviously, I get that's a totally different situation from a parent desperately trying to home school a 5 and 7 year old while trying to hold down a full time job. But the point of my post is that we need to challenge the narrative (a) that it's self-evidently a good thing for all school students to be physically back at school asap; and (b) that it would be better for all students' mental health to be physically back at school. For students old enough to understand the risk of Covid to their parents, the prospect of a return to school can be a real source of stress.

But some of us see the much bigger picture and aren't USING children, we are genuinely sad and worried for them

I’ll correct that for you. You are genuinely sad and worried for some children. You are not sad and worried for those children who are CEV or CV. Not one bit. You are not sad and worried for the, because that doesn’t include your child. You don’t have to make a decision about keeping your child off school because of their vulnerabilities. No one, or at least that’s how it seems, gives a toss about their mental health or their rights to an education or their right to be with their peers.

[quote ichundich]@Gallbladder Yes, we have live lessons, which our children have to attend (primary). There is an expectation that parents are on hand during these, so that means I cannot get on with my own work during this time.
In any case no matter how good home-learning provision is, it can never be the same as being in school because it lacks most of the social aspects, working in teams, PE and much more.
Numbers have fallen since 4th January despite of many primaries being 30 to 50% full. There is, therefore, no justification for keeping schools closed for much longer. Cases spiked in the autumn / winter mainly because foreign holidays were allowed to go ahead in the summer and the harebrained Eat out to help out scheme.[/quote]
You’re wrong about the 30 to 50%.

The latest attendance data from the Department for Education (DfE) shows that as of January 13, attendance was at 21 per cent in primary schools and 5 per cent at secondary schools.

It may have gone up somewhat since, though schools have been trying to cap numbers - maybe you’d like to find a more up to date figure - but the really important thing is the tiny number of secondary school students in school. The rest of your argument is pure speculation.

schoolsweek.co.uk/pupil-attendance-fives-times-higher-than-during-first-lockdown/

Sadly the NEU and a proportion of teachers determined to put their own concerns and their political opposition to the government above the needs of children seem to prevail

What exactly is your evidence for this statement, if any? As in what has specifically been said or done? There’s absolutely no evidence of this in the OP. Come on, surely you have just a little anecdote to back up this claim?

Your one line answers throughout this thread to people who hold opposing views to the OP is downright weird

I am stating a fact. It needs no further elaboration.

Yes but it would only cut transmission for the current variants it does work against, how do you know it would reduce transmission against new variants?
If you cut transmission of the current variants before you open up widely, then there’s less of a chance that there will be new variants. Widespread vaccination should prevent new variants before they occur. Once they’ve occurred it takes a long time to put the genie back in the bottle.

You’re right, op. No one gives a shit about other kids...it’s the fucking us for them twats...we all know there’s no opening of schools safely...it will just be business as usual!

@Blacktothepink

You’re right, op. No one gives a shit about other kids...it’s the fucking us for them twats...we all know there’s no opening of schools safely...it will just be business as usual!

@Blacktothepink if they introduced rotas it would be an important step

I wonder why they are not?

MessAllOver
I would guess families choosing to hire nannies to facilitate home learning are the same sort of families with a mum on MN accusing any teacher who advocated

You know the types, the ones who claim to care about educational disadvantage as they propose the only way to educate through a pandemic is to have a full timetable of live lessons (regardless of what Ofsted, DfE and EEF say about remote learning). Their main argument is that their child needs to have what the private school are doing, anything less is promoting disadvantage and shows teachers hate poor children. Naturally if anyone points out they are posting from a position of privilege and that their proposals are not only building a huge barrier to disadvantaged students, but it creates disadvantage for many families who don't have the parent capacity or devices for 3 children to be online 9-3 whilst parents work from home, then their true colours come out as they say ^'why should it be a rush to the bottom though? It's not my problem that other people haven't got access to devices. You want to dumb everything down and ruin chances for nice families like mine to prioritise families who don'tcare'.

It's a truly nasty undertone from those who want to coopt the struggles of disadvantaged families and families who are finding it difficult to promote a solution that benefits them.

It's the same story with these right wingers and Us4Them type groups. They don't actually care about children and families. Their actions have shown they don't care (eg care about children and disadvantage, but vote to keep them hungry).

Unfortunately selectively exploiting concerns for personal and political gain is the priority in this crisis.

Where did the rest of my sentence go?

I would guess families choosing to hire nannies to facilitate home learning are the same sort of families with a mum on MN accusing any teacher who advocated appropriate measures to open responsibly of wanting schools closed forever